View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:23 am Post subject: Rest and Recovery Formula |
|
|
How do you interpret the advice "rest as much as you play"?
Play a few bars, then rest a rew.
Play 20 minutes, then rest 20 minutes.
Something else? _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
My way is "rest long enough so that you have recovered adequately to play well again" - it is not necessary to be 'fully recovered'. But don't start again if so fatigued that you do not have control - embouchure, range, sound, concentration, etc.
My 'interpretation' is - It's a convenient mechanical guide that will work, and doesn't require much explanation or thought. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
|
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Very few can play 20 minutes without taking it off the face.
More like 20 seconds on, 20 seconds off. _________________ Bill Bergren |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
|
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sing everything before you play it. Everything. Sing a long tone and then play it. Sing a Clark study and then play it. Scat a chorus with a play-along and then play a chorus. Great for your ears. Great for your concentration. Musicianship continues to develop while the body recovers. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com
Last edited by PH on Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
|
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Great replies, thanks! _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gstump Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934
|
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
That phrase has always confused me. I feel it is best to separate rest from recovery.
So play a minute long study and rest a minute. Practice 20 minutes with internal resting per above. Then take a break for 20 minutes or more and practice 20 minutes or more.
But recovery is different. Play a hard gig for 3 hours and take 24 hours to recover. I use a bit of pressure on high notes so the times I tried practicing a heavy routine the next morning basically destroyed my chops.
Rest & Recover!!! _________________ Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LFRoberts5 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2002 Posts: 960 Location: St. Louis
|
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
3 minutes on the horn..3 minutes rest... _________________ Student of the Trumpet!
It's not about us....It's about God! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gwood66 Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
|
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I look at it as play 8 bars or 20 seconds (like Billy B said) and then rest for at least that long.
Early in my comeback I would play to exhaustion (like a meathead) and then rest a little and play until exhaustion. Rinse an repeat. I was taking monthly lessons from John Mohan at the time and could never get through a routine when I was practicing at home. John and I would trade of during lessons and I never had a problem playing the full hour which I chalked up to having a good day the first couple of times. I eventually asked John about it and he gave me some advice similar to PH.
I think there is another piece that is overlooked is minimizing the number of variables to help improve the ability for the muscles to coordinate. Playing on chops that are always fresh improves the chance that some coordination might actually happen.
Anyway... yeah play 8 bars, rest at least 8 bars. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SteveDurand Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2015 Posts: 80 Location: Orange County, California
|
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
While "rest as much as you play" is good advice for a beginner or a comeback player, I don't think it is necessarily good for an experienced player.
Only playing short segments and taking that much rest does not prepare you for the rigors of a demanding performance.
My thinking is more in line with what Joy Kosta posted. Rest enough so that you are not playing on overtired chops. The amount of rest needed will vary by the individual.
Steve |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
|
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm on team sing/play. The idea of pedantically timing rest/play seems strange to me, but I can alternate singing and playing and have my face always feel rested. The mind gets tired before the body. It's efficient since it constantly challenges your mental conception. You learn faster and get more reps at peak performance. When you're in a stressful performance, you can draw on those good reps much better than tired poor reps. It's almost foolproof practice. When in doubt, just sing/play phrase by phrase.
There's a point where you have to spend some time learning to make it through whatever program you're preparing, but if your practice is efficient (sing/play, practice making beautiful sounds, a strong commitment to fundamentals), it doesn't take that much to adapt to any endurance demands.
There's a balance though. Regular running of etudes is a good counterbalance to sing/play. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9014 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Play as long as you can.
Smoke a Padron
Drink a glass of Courvoisier
Put an Aebersold on and wax poetically.
Stir and and repeat. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_587aaec New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
|
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Goodbye.
Last edited by deleted_user_587aaec on Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
|
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
I do a morning practice of fundamentals, taking breaks as needed, but the afternoon practice is always dedicated to playing the songs I love, which are mostly old standards that take 2 to 3 minutes each. I warm up with 5 minutes of long tones, then I play 10 to 12 tunes. Between each song I sing the lyrics and note the road map, looking at those times in the song when I will need extra wind. That is the only rest I need and has been working for me ever since my comeback 6 years ago. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
|
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
For someone who aspires to play at a professional level, the adage "Rest as much as you play" still applies. Endurance comes from a combination of solid efficient fundamentals and a couple of other things.
If you want to be able to play a demanding four hour gig and finish with something in the tank, then you need to practice for more than four hours every day. That's just common sense.
If you need to be able to play gigs where the horn is on your face for a long time (vamps, bows, etc) then GRADUALLY lengthen the time you play THEN REST THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME. Work up to where you can play an entire Arban Characteristic Study or Charlier in one setting without stopping for anything other than musical purposes. Then rest as long as it took you to play it. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jason Rogers Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2021 Posts: 101 Location: Salisbury, MD
|
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:06 am Post subject: Rest and Recovery Formula |
|
|
This is a trumpet players daily challenge. This is the topic that makes or breaks wind musicians. Thinking about this topic brings to mind the challenges of preparing to perform pieces such as Gustav Holst The Planets, Maurice Ravel Bolero etc..., brass quintet playing, the Henri Tomasi Trumpet Concerto, West Side Story... preparing a high school competitive marching band (to deliver their music...mostly intune and with a professional sound from the tuba all the way up to piccolo and having a positive experience through all of the work!!!)
Having the capacity to perform musically on wind instruments is very much an organic experience!!!(What does that mean?)
1. Practice smart focusing on tone production---practice to perform---every practice is a performance...
2. Practice to build your lip not tear down...stop practicing when things no longer work with ease i.e. range, tone quality, slurring or lip slurs. (We have all had to play beyond our comfort level.)
3. Learn to play the music that you must perform!!! Learn to play it in the practice room first!!! Learn to maintain it once you have learned it.
Practice sessions of 20 to 30 minutes throughout the day build your endurance and your mindfulness and capacity to do more!!! _________________ Martin Committee 1954
Benge
Bach Stradivarius
Schilke
Getzen |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 380
|
Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For a long time I could never grasp how a player like Freddie Hubbard ( or pick another great) could play such long solos, with such intensity, and do it for 3 sets! Then do it again the next night!
It's still a mystery to me, there's just not that much "rest" time in that format.
Even when I was playing trumpet in a big band, with a lot of rest even in charts, i'd still be tired after a 2 hr rehearsal.
In the age of COVID, I haven't had to cram all my practice into 1 short session. Longer sessions with more rest, or more, shorter sessions work, too.
Another thing I did pick up, warm DOWN, too. long tones, pedals. It seems to help recovery. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|