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jhahntpt
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Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
Location: Southington CT
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 Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Unity |
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| Brent wrote: | jhahntpt:
Curious how you think Monette may have changed the throat and backbore for the Unity. Do you think either are bigger or smaller?
A lot of players that try Monette mouthpieces struggle with how big his throat and backbores can be. |
I tried the Unity B4S compared to a Prana Resonance B4sS2 and the Prana felt like blowing down a hallway. It didn't feel efficient at all for how I play. The Unity feels like a true goldilocks, bigger and freer than the classic while being realistic still. For all I know they could have the same drill sizes as the prana do, but the tapers could be more efficient or whatever voodoo Dave did.
End of the day, this mouthpiece is WAY more appropriate for me than the Pranas that I have played in the past.
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acritzer
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Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 827
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Unity |
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| jhahntpt wrote: | | Brent wrote: | jhahntpt:
Curious how you think Monette may have changed the throat and backbore for the Unity. Do you think either are bigger or smaller?
A lot of players that try Monette mouthpieces struggle with how big his throat and backbores can be. |
I tried the Unity B4S compared to a Prana Resonance B4sS2 and the Prana felt like blowing down a hallway. It didn't feel efficient at all for how I play. The Unity feels like a true goldilocks, bigger and freer than the classic while being realistic still. For all I know they could have the same drill sizes as the prana do, but the tapers could be more efficient or whatever voodoo Dave did.
End of the day, this mouthpiece is WAY more appropriate for me than the Pranas that I have played in the past. |
That’s interesting. I know that Adam at Lotus was attempting to create something that had the benefits that Monette offered but not the efficiency drawbacks. I wonder if Dave pulled back a little from the “must be super relaxed” requirement? Or the idea that you have unlearn all of the past playing habits in order to get the mouthpiece to work for you. |
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jhahntpt
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Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
Location: Southington CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:51 am Post subject: |
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I’ve played the first generation from Lotus. Not impressed at all. Didn’t feel premium or even unique to say, a Curry MPC. Especially so with the issues I’ve heard from the community. I’ve played a great deal of mouthpieces. Many a honeymoon. Unity hits different.
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Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
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Cornet: York Eminence |
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scottfsmith
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Joined: 27 Jun 2015
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I got a Unity B2-7 a couple weeks ago. It is definitely a different beast than the Prana. My impression is it has more resistance which makes it easier to hold up your form. In other words, with the Prana you needed to be in top form to hold the embouchure as you didn't have the resistance to "lean on". You don't want to push through the Unity's resistance, you want to resonate with it. In other words, it forces you to play with a more relaxed style because overblowing just won't work. It took me awhile to get used to it (partly due to being pretty rusty in general) but now it is playing very well. This could paradoxically be a better "entry level" Monette mouthpiece for weekend warriors like myself.
In looking at the bowl/bore the main thing different from my previous Prana (a B6DS1, smaller cup) is the throat entrance is a lot wider. This actually increases the resistance, not sure why but I have noticed this in my own mouthpiece designs. Wide throat entrances like this are generally not found on modern mouthpieces but I have seen some on older pieces. The backbore is not all that different from Prana.
I got the new -7 rim (it is on the 1 and 2 sizes only now). It is an interesting rim, rounded on the inside and flatter on the outside. The inside curve is very similar to the standard GR rim: more round, and a bite deeper in the bowl. This makes it easier to hold your lips in position without feeling an annoying bite into your lip. The outside of the rim is more like the standard flat Monette rims. The GR is more round on the outside, I never liked that as the whole mouthpiece bites in too much with that. So, the -7 rim is a winner as far as I am concerned.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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ianmcarey
New Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Posts: 8
Location: Richmond, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| scottfsmith wrote: | I got a Unity B2-7 a couple weeks ago. It is definitely a different beast than the Prana. My impression is it has more resistance which makes it easier to hold up your form. In other words, with the Prana you needed to be in top form to hold the embouchure as you didn't have the resistance to "lean on". You don't want to push through the Unity's resistance, you want to resonate with it. In other words, it forces you to play with a more relaxed style because overblowing just won't work. It took me awhile to get used to it (partly due to being pretty rusty in general) but now it is playing very well. This could paradoxically be a better "entry level" Monette mouthpiece for weekend warriors like myself.
In looking at the bowl/bore the main thing different from my previous Prana (a B6DS1, smaller cup) is the throat entrance is a lot wider. This actually increases the resistance, not sure why but I have noticed this in my own mouthpiece designs. Wide throat entrances like this are generally not found on modern mouthpieces but I have seen some on older pieces. The backbore is not all that different from Prana.
I got the new -7 rim (it is on the 1 and 2 sizes only now). It is an interesting rim, rounded on the inside and flatter on the outside. The inside curve is very similar to the standard GR rim: more round, and a bite deeper in the bowl. This makes it easier to hold your lips in position without feeling an annoying bite into your lip. The outside of the rim is more like the standard flat Monette rims. The GR is more round on the outside, I never liked that as the whole mouthpiece bites in too much with that. So, the -7 rim is a winner as far as I am concerned. |
Interesting. How does the shank thickness compare to the classic, or the (terrifyingly paper-thin) Prana? |
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scottfsmith
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Joined: 27 Jun 2015
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ianmcarey wrote: |
Interesting. How does the shank thickness compare to the classic, or the (terrifyingly paper-thin) Prana? |
It is the latter .. pretty much identical to the Prana.
I learned a new thing tonight, I tried out a bunch of other trumpets I had with the Unity and it really didn't like my Adams A1 with the more "open" tuning slide option (it comes with two slides). The lack of resistance in the horn really threw things off. On all my other trumpets it worked great, and it was also working well with the other Adams A1 slide.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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ianmcarey
New Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2002
Posts: 8
Location: Richmond, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| scottfsmith wrote: | | ianmcarey wrote: |
Interesting. How does the shank thickness compare to the classic, or the (terrifyingly paper-thin) Prana? |
It is the latter .. pretty much identical to the Prana.
I learned a new thing tonight, I tried out a bunch of other trumpets I had with the Unity and it really didn't like my Adams A1 with the more "open" tuning slide option (it comes with two slides). The lack of resistance in the horn really threw things off. On all my other trumpets it worked great, and it was also working well with the other Adams A1 slide. |
OK thanks. I have a large bore horn and could never get the Prana pieces to work for me so I'll probably skip this iteration. |
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scottfsmith
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Joined: 27 Jun 2015
Posts: 474
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ianmcarey wrote: | | OK thanks. I have a large bore horn and could never get the Prana pieces to work for me so I'll probably skip this iteration. |
The resistance is more due to the bore of the lead pipe and tuning slide than the valves. So it is hard to draw much of a conclusion just from the bore size at the valves. If your horn feels super open compared to other horns then I would say it might be less good for a Unity… emphasis on “might”, too many variables.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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JPHB
Regular Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| If I were Monette I would prob charge more than he's charging for these new MPs. That being said, I would never order one, but I have somehow escaped the perpetual MP search that seems to plague a lot of players - choose something that works and practice . . . I know one thing, my fav players can sound great on anything . . . I can't, but they can, and that tells me that gear is def secondary |
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Not a heck of a lot of details to share at this point, but I've had my *new* lead piece for a few days - Unity B1-1L - and my initial reaction is, "WOW!"
Now, I've been a Monette mouthpiece client for more than twenty five years, so I've been through all but one of the evolutionary steps in his designs that have led us to today: STC; Prana; "Slap" cup designs; Prana Resonance and also Prana Resonance XLT for my lead work; and now Unity. As my go-to mouthpiece size for all-round 'legit' work is the 1-1S1 rim and cup, finding the right 'fit' for an efficient lead/commercial/pops mpc that doesn't feel too small, and isn't such a difficult transition from the very rounded rim profile of my main mouthpiece has been a career-long quest ---
-First, I played a B1L way back in the day, that preserved the large diameter of my main mpc, but had a rather thin and flat/sharp rim combined with a very VERY shallow cup. It worked at the time, but I was an invincible teenager and would sometimes cut up my chops due to too much pressure.
-Then, when I upgraded to Prana equipment, I briefly played an LT B4LD, and later when my Prana LTJ Bb was built, I had both versions of shallower 'lead' cups on the 1-1 rim to work from: B1-1LDS1 and B1-1L (there wasn't a 'Slap' version of that one, at the time). They worked OK - the 1-1LDS1 was great for shows and zippier pops, but wasn't really a lead piece, so to speak. The Prana B1-1L was very shallow, but that combined with the huge rim diameter and rounded rim profile made it risky for bottoming out as I got tired.
-Most recently, I worked with BJ on comparing the 4LDS and 4L rims, which are exactly the same size, but have ever so slightly different rim profiles/contours. I'd always found that the 4LD rim was a little too 'cushiony' for me, with the part of the rim that makes contact with my chops a little too 'thick' thereby exacerbating the feeling of being on a smaller diameter piece...SO, I've been quite happy with my Prana Resonance XLT B4LS1 for lead applications, and a special Prana Resonance B4L/2S3 for pops and commercial applications...until now!
Thus far, the UNITY B1-1L, which preserves the unique contour of the 1-1 rim, but reduces the diameter of the cup to that of about a '4' size in order to be a real, functional lead piece, has been a revelation. On the chops, I had grown somewhat used to the ever-so-slightly sharper (in reality, less rounded) inner 'bite' of the B4L rim, so getting back into a mindset of lead applications with virtually no transition from my legit setup is taking a little bit of getting used to. On the other side of the universe of taking time to get used to is how quick the response is from this mouthpiece, how lively-yet-rich the sound is, and how subtle and close together the dynamic and registral extremes are.
Unfortunately, due to COVID, a big band gig where I was planning on debuting the Unity B1-1L has been postponed/cancelled, so for the next little bit, my observations about this new setup will come exclusively from the practice room. I did, however, play some split lead on a big band gig just days before the Unity piece arrived, so I had very fresh memories of how I was using those two different B4L mpcs and how the Unity - especially once I'm fully acclimated and have it battle tested - can do everything and more.
A Unity C1-7 built for my MC-35 C trumpet should be coming sometime in the new year, so I'll give an update about that...and further down the line, my Raja A-Piccolo will be getting an upgraded Unity front end - I can't wait to share some baroque solos from a nice acoustic once that's all done, though it'll likely be later down the line in 2022.
Happy practicing - with what you've got and that vivid sound in your head and heart!
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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ThatDude
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Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 372
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Any new reviews? |
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Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ThatDude wrote: | | Any new reviews? |
I'm getting a B4L on Monday, but I haven't played Monette pieces in a few years so a better review would probably come from somebody who has been playing a Prana piece. |
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Jaw04
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaw04 wrote: | | ThatDude wrote: | | Any new reviews? |
I'm getting a B4L on Monday, but I haven't played Monette pieces in a few years so a better review would probably come from somebody who has been playing a Prana piece. |
Ok people... don't make fun of me. I accidentally ordered a BL4 instead of a B4L from Dillon music... they are different mouthpieces. I intended to get the B4L. I think they should come with a big disclaimer that these two pieces should not be confused. Or, they should be renamed altogether. Anyways,
The BL4 that I got in extra lightweight blank is a flamethrower of a lead mouthpiece. It is very shallow and narrow. I'm probably going to use it on a mic'd salsa gig this Friday, but I probably wouldn't use it in many other situations. It gets a wonderful clear sound from G on top of the staff and above, but like any other very shallow lead piece, it won't be suitable for most playing unless you really specialize in using a lead piece like that and get accustom to the response. I don't specialize in these kinds of pieces, so my sound is a bit thin and airy in the staff. It's fun to pretend to be Wayne Bergeron though. |
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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That IS a big difference. For me, the BL4 would be unplayable because I have a hard enough time playing the BL. It's just too narrow for me. I have a B4LDs1 that I love! I ordered a Unity C4LD and I hope it's even better. Fingers crossed.
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Jaw04
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kevin_soda wrote: |
That IS a big difference. For me, the BL4 would be unplayable because I have a hard enough time playing the BL. It's just too narrow for me. I have a B4LDs1 that I love! I ordered a Unity C4LD and I hope it's even better. Fingers crossed. |
Yeah... I'm going to need to return it.. it's just too extreme. I did however also get a B4S Unity and it's the bomb. I was shocked at how hard it slotted while still being loose, open, free, and warm. Quite a marvelous playing sensation. |
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ThatDude
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Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| How’s the sound? |
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Jaw04
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ThatDude wrote: | | How’s the sound? |
Sounds awesome! Really full and rich but I think probably more focused than other Monette pieces I've played? Hard to say until I have more experience in playing situations. Right now I've just practiced at home with it. |
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RussellDDixon
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Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Location: Mason, OH
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the actual reviews by people who own and have played the Mouthpiece. I have played an XLT Prana for several years now and really love it. Was gifted to me so cheaper than any piece out there LOL
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Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana Resonance LT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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Trptguy
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Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:55 am Post subject: |
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So curious if any other have the new "7" rim design. I m ready to upgrade from my classic but not sure if I should go with this new rim.
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Seelan Manickam
Trumpet Faculty, Keene State College
Director, Keene State Orchestra
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scottfsmith
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Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Trptguy wrote: | | So curious if any other have the new "7" rim design. I m ready to upgrade from my classic but not sure if I should go with this new rim. |
I have a B2-7 and I love the rim. It has a more firm grip on the lips in the inner rim without being too sharp.
The inner rim is very similar to the classic GR rim: a very slow curve until maybe 2mm into the bowl at which point there is a sharp turn to start the bowl. The slow curve makes it easy on the lips and the sharp curve holds the lips in place. The outer part of the rim is more flat than the GR and that was my one complaint about the GR rim.
While posting I may as well give a general update. I am still on my B2-7 as my regular mouthpiece. It does it all for me really. I was mentioning above how it didn't seem to like a very open horn (my Adams A1 with the open slide in particular), but to follow up on that I have found I am doing best with it on a large-bore horn but with a relatively tight Venturi on the lead pipe. I have two versions of the Courtois Privilege trumpet, one with a narrower bore but wider Venturi, and one with the opposite. Both play really well with the Unity, but the wide bore / narrow Venturi just knocks it out of the park.
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Thane Standard Large Bb / Monette Unity B6-7M mpc
Lots of vintage trumpets and mouthpieces |
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