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TriumphantTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2021 Posts: 135 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: The Zottola Experience seeking opinion. |
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Hi all,
I recently bought a Buescher Aristocrat that came to me complete with a Zottola 64B 'Symphony' model.
I am only about four weeks into my trumpet journey but I have found that, while I was only repeatedly hitting F at the top of the Staff with my Bach 7c I have been able to climb right up to the C above the Staff with the Zottola although not consistently as yet but a distinct improvement on what I could achieve with the Bach 7c.
As I understand it this model the 'symphony' is made with a traditional bore rather than Zottola's special stepped one. My question for those who have used the Stepped bore and, ideally both types is - Does the stepped bore make 'slotting' easier as is claimed and which is considered the better mouthpiece of the two internal bores. I know that this sort of thing is highly subjective but I welcome all opinions. |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2335 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I went through a Zottola phase right around the end of the company and still have a few cornet mouthpieces. I was looking to brighten my sound at the time so I never tried the Symphony backbore.
This is obviously a subjective apples-to-oranges comparison, but there was nothing about the two trumpet mouthpieces I owned that suggested the stepped backbore changed much of anything. They weren't bad mouthpieces, but I fairly quickly switched back to what I had been playing before because I preferred the rim.
I had a different opinion of the cornet mouthpieces, which is why I still have a 64A, 66A, and 66C. Again, I wouldn't state that I think it's the stepped backbore, but I much preferred those pieces over their trumpet equivalents. I developed a theory that it was the lighter blank of the cornet pieces and had vague thoughts of buying a B-depth cornet piece in both the 64 and 66 diameters and having the tops cut with Warburton threads so I could try them as trumpet mouthpieces (and I did toy with the idea of having one of the Zottola trumpet mouthpieces harvested for the backbore to try the lighter top on the stepped backbore).
Frank Zottola sold the company while I pondered, and Dick Akright never put them back into production so I moved on. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1802 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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A similar experience to the above poster. Nothing bad to say about the mouthpieces - just did not like the rim bite.
Sort of like the bumble bee - the amazing thing about the stepped backbore is not how well it plays - but that it plays at all.
Oh - I took a cast of the backbore and did some checking. The "cylinders" of the steps line up pretty close to the measurement areas Frost studied in his PhD dissertation on backbores. Using "cylinders" of different diameters to prototype backbores (to control the sound) might be easier than cutting tapered reamers.
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TriumphantTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2021 Posts: 135 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies, some food for thought. I have to say that, while I find the mouthpiece seems to give me access to the higher notes with much more ease than my standard Bach 7c I do find the rim of it somewhat small against my lips. Although it's quite possibly my lack of experience but particularly when I am on low notes it feels as if I'm at risk of eating the mouthpiece.
I do feel that with all of my small selection of mouthpieces they don't feel grounded against my lips. Are there mouthpieces with a larger outer diameter or does that interfere with the sound? |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I would say that about everyone who has ever tried their hand a making a mouthpiece goes thru a few phases:
1: using an existing mouthpiece as a blank and enlarging it and reshaping it with sandpaper. In other words vachiano style
2: start with brass rod stock and drill the backbore is steps with several drill bits experimenting with how far the insert each size. This actually works pretty good. Kind of like a pilzchuk leadpipe.
3) make backbore reamers which involves some challenges but not that hard
If it plays great in phase 2 why mess with it? Ultimately though it’s for sure faster to use a reamer than all those drill sizes. Even with a turret lathe with stops for each bit.
I like the zottolas I’ve seen _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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UKtrumpetman Regular Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2016 Posts: 28 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I still play a Zottola 64 FL and my 66C trumpet mp - they suit me a lot and while I have other makes that take a second preference they'll do me fine.
My 66c has disappeared at a rehearsal - if anyone has one needing a new home please see my wanted post
Cheers |
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TriumphantTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2021 Posts: 135 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Having had a bit of time playing the 64B I am still finding it a very nice piece to play with although I think it's possibly too small diameter cup to be ideal for me. I would quite like to try something like a shallow version of the 66 size. |
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jrpbrass Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2016 Posts: 110 Location: North Ft Myers, Florida
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Zottola mouthpiece |
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I have tried many trumpet mouthpieces in over 40 years of playing and finally settled on a vintage Zottola 66B. I love this and don't plan on switching again. Mine has a very wide, comfortable rim which I prefer. To a player just starting out, I would just recommend trying as many mouthpieces as possible to find the one that works best for you. _________________ BrassHistory.net
Soli Deo Gloria |
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TriumphantTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2021 Posts: 135 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, after some time I am still playing the Zottola 64B and finding that it suits me well although I have also bought a Denis Wick 1W as well.
I bought the Denis Wick as I felt that I would like a wider rim and also I wanted to try a wider, deeper cup as well. According to an online chart the Zottola 64B was somewhere around 16.5mm in diameter and I was looking to try something quite a bit bigger. Now that I have the Denis Wick, although I haven't actually measured them, by eye they seem to be about the same width of rim and diameter of cup although the Zottola is quite a bit shallower in the cup. The Zottola is definitely easier to hit the high notes with although the Wick seems to have a bit more on the bottom end. As my Zottola is a 'Symphonic' smooth taper I would like to try a stepped bore one, possibly with a deeper cup. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Zottola Experience seeking opinion. |
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TriumphantTrumpeter wrote: | I am only about four weeks into my trumpet journey but I have found that, while I was only repeatedly hitting F at the top of the Staff with my Bach 7c I have been able to climb right up to the C above the Staff with the Zottola although not consistently as yet but a distinct improvement on what I could achieve with the Bach 7c. |
I think trying to figure out what's the best mouthpiece after playing the trumpet for four weeks is like thinking that after the first round of golf is the perfect time to buy some custom fitted clubs. Or deciding which car to take out on the racetrack after managing to drive a car around the block for the first time.
Seriously, just pick one and go with it for at least a few months and don't switch around. Either one. Maybe not the Wick 1W, that's probably too big.
The Zottola step bore question is interesting, though. I know little about them.
But, just pick one and practice. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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trumpetchops Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Years ago I was looking for a lead MP. I went to (I think) Portchester to Mr. Zottola's shop. It was in the garage behind the house. He spent a long time with me finding the right MP. He didn't make one for me but, had so many to choose from. I didn't pick one, he did. I would play and tell him what I thought and he would get another until he said, that's the one you should take.
He also gave me another and said "When you're a little stronger player, try this one". The MP's were 25.00 each and kind of came with a trumpet lesson.
I played on that MP for a long time until going to Monette. I had a problem with having a wide swing in pitch from low to high which didn't happen with the Monette. Recently I tried the Zottola in my Monette trumpet and the pitch problem didn't happen. It must have been a gap thing.
The Zottola has a bright sound over the staff. Nice for lead. It's a little bigger than the Monette I play now so, I can't use it without getting used to it.
I was never strong enough to play on the other one. _________________ Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8964 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:58 am Post subject: Re: The Zottola Experience seeking opinion. |
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Crazy Finn wrote: |
I think trying to figure out what's the best mouthpiece after playing the trumpet for four weeks is like . . deciding which car to take out on the racetrack after managing to drive a car around the block for the first time. . just pick one and practice. | LOL.
Exactly. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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TriumphantTrumpeter Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2021 Posts: 135 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I appreciate that it's probably very early in my trumpet playing experience to go hunting for the 'perfect' mouthpiece but I have to say that I find the 64B Zottola and the Denis Wick 1W pretty much interchangeable and can get results that at least sound fairly decent to my ear with either one. I was contemplating actually going even bigger as they still feel a little small against my lips. I have a wide variety that I have acquired from the Wick being the largest through a Bach 21/2c down to a teeny tiny Lew Davis and a Kosicup and I do find the biggest ones much more comfortable and far easier to blow. The only problem is that, according to my wife, I have become deafeningly loud when I am pushing it.
I was struggling with the Vincent Bach 7c that I first had and so picked up a trio of cheap Megatone copies (7c, 5c and 3c) and found I was finding it much easier with the 3c and then along came the Zottola included when I picked up by Buescher Aristocrat 235 and it was even better. I don't consider myself to have thick or 'fleshy' lips by any stretch but I seem to get on better with a bigger cup and, with the Zottola and, particular my Wick 1W I am hitting the 'C' above the stave fairly easily now and can even scream past it though don't ask me what note I'm hitting and all I can say is it scares the hell out of my dogs!
Is cup size related to the strength of the lips? I have to say that, although I haven't played in a year or two I have been a Scottish Great Highland Bagpipe player for many years and have also played Tenor Saxophone occasionally in the past so I daresay I have developed some reasonable lip strength. |
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frianm New Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2023 Posts: 2 Location: Chester, VT
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: returning to cornet after nearly 40 years |
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I am just picking up on this subject and writing even though I am basically a lurker. I used to play cornet in the era 83-94. I came across Frank Zottola and his mouthpieces. I left off playing and gave away all my gear. I am now enjoying playing for myself, and the dogs. I started to search for a Zottola mp to use on my 1948 Salvation Army Bandmaster. I found a 66a and it arrived this morning. It was like meeting up with an old friend. It reminded me of the conversations that I had with Frank where he would advise me and a very indifferent player. I am still indifferent but enjoy myself. I want to play tribute to Frank, his courtesy and his mouthpieces.
Merry Christmas. |
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peanuts56 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2021 Posts: 220
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I still have a 64B that I got from Frank Zottola back in 1975 or 76.
I liked it but eventually ended up on a 3C. I studied with Frank's son Bobby for a year. Bob played a 64B if my memory is intact. Bob's brother Glen plays a special made piece his dad made for him. |
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