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Trombone mouthpiece on trumpet


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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:06 pm    Post subject: Trombone mouthpiece on trumpet Reply with quote

At least I think this is what this is …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoQgBfi5Fro

Have to try that once all the neighbors are awake
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Trombone mouthpiece on trumpet Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
At least I think this is what this is …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoQgBfi5Fro

Have to try that once all the neighbors are awake

Yes that is what it is. It's a custom mouthpiece made for him.
https://wycliffegordon.com/product/hybrid-crossover-mouthpieces/
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was on the Old Guard Fife & Drum Corps, we had a bugler who'd come to the Unit from a regular Army band who was a trombone player, and he struggled a bit with the smaller mouthpiece for the Bb bugle. At one point he had Doug Elliot make him a mouthpiece that was essentially a small trombone rim and cut on a trumpet shank.

He used it a bit, but eventually he went back to using a trumpet mouthpiece for the bugling.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may belong under the heading of "just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should"...
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
This may belong under the heading of "just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should"...

I agree. I dont think even with him it sounds right and he is an excellent player. Everyone else I have heard play one it sounds like garbage.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an Al Cass doubler which is a super deep cup with about a tenor horn sized rim on a tenor trombone shank. I have a bass trumpet that I don't use very often. If I need to play it without a couple of days to get my tenor chops online, I may use the doubler. But it pretty well sounds like a bumble bee in a barrel.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
This may belong under the heading of "just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should"...

I agree. I dont think even with him it sounds right and he is an excellent player. Everyone else I have heard play one it sounds like garbage.

Define "right." Why do we have to have such a narrow interpretation of why something should or shouldn't sound a certain way?

I thought he sounded fine.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
chef8489 wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
This may belong under the heading of "just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should"...

I agree. I dont think even with him it sounds right and he is an excellent player. Everyone else I have heard play one it sounds like garbage.

Define "right." Why do we have to have such a narrow interpretation of why something should or shouldn't sound a certain way?

I thought he sounded fine.
No " He" sounded excellent" But the instrument had some issues with pitch and intonation. It sounded like a mouthpiece that is not quite right for the instrument. it doesnt have the same sound as a trumpet mouthpiece. Because he is such a great player he is overcoming a lot of these issues. He will also have range issues. For what he does it works for him and he does an amazing job and I understand why he does it. He is a one in a million player that can use that mouthpiece like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc6zkJw2kYk

But here is a good trombone player and what they would typically sound like on it and it sounds horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E58L6u_DJwk&t=274s
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, he sounds fine to me. Not as brilliant (soundwise) as Maynard or Arturo but a trumpet sound nonetheless. Interesting concept, I didn’t think something like that existed.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="chef8489"]
trickg wrote:
But here is a good trombone player and what they would typically sound like on it and it sounds horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E58L6u_DJwk&t=274s

I don't think he sounds horrible - I think it sounds like he's very unfamiliar with the feel of that particular setup. I think that given some time, he'd actually find the focal point and it would completely shift his sound.

I know - I'm probably the outlier on this, and my opinion on it, along with a few bucks, is probably only about worth the price of a cup of coffee, so it is what it is.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="trickg"]
chef8489 wrote:
trickg wrote:
But here is a good trombone player and what they would typically sound like on it and it sounds horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E58L6u_DJwk&t=274s

I don't think he sounds horrible - I think it sounds like he's very unfamiliar with the feel of that particular setup. I think that given some time, he'd actually find the focal point and it would completely shift his sound.

I know - I'm probably the outlier on this, and my opinion on it, along with a few bucks, is probably only about worth the price of a cup of coffee, so it is what it is.


I thought the same thing - IMO, it sounded more like he wasn't synced with the resistance, or wasn't hitting the centre of the notes than it sounded like something to do with the mouthpiece itself.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm wrong. So far I'm not convinced. Maybe more great players will come along and prove me wrong.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's super fun to listen to. I think he's about the only person I've heard who can play slide trumpet and make it sound good. I was watching one song and he just played his mouthpiece I think that type of creativity doesn't require a specific sound.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
He's super fun to listen to. I think he's about the only person I've heard who can play slide trumpet and make it sound good. I was watching one song and he just played his mouthpiece I think that type of creativity doesn't require a specific sound.

I think he is amazing player as well. I'm just not quite sold on the sound of the mouthpiece on the trumpet. We all like different sounds.thats the good thing about music. Maybe more I listen it will grow on me.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounded great - it is the end result that matters.
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Patrick Hasselbank
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Trombone mouthpiece on trumpet Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
At least I think this is what this is …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoQgBfi5Fro

Have to try that once all the neighbors are awake


Customizing instrument is the best that you can do to raise level of your music!
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Partly inspired by this (and other) threads and a recent interest in trombone, I just got a slide trumpet. One of the things that it made me aware of is that for slide trumpet classical tone quality is less important (or possible?) and a wider range of mouthpieces is probably possible. It wouldn't surprise me if Wycliffe Gordon's mouthpiece works great on a slide trombone, where you can control tone quality more finely using the slide. Just a thought. I wonder which he learned first (valve or slide trumpet)? (And I thought he sounded pretty amazing on valve trumpet too, but I could see the mouthpiece causing troubles in other environments.)
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t understand a lot of comments here. Though you can hear that he is a great player with a steel strong embouchure he still sounds awful, horrible, name it, and I don’t think he is really serious about it. BTW as a former trombone player I of course tried a trombone mouthpiece in my trumpets. But the intonation is all over the placa and I presume that’s not really possible to control.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't totally understand your comment "he is a great player with a steel strong embouchure he still sounds awful, horrible, name it." It doesn't track with what I am hearing.

My comment (perhaps also unclear) was to say:
(1) On slide trumpet, which he plays a lot, I could see mouthpiece affecting intonation a lot less since you can correct more easily with the slide. (Admittedly, slide trumpet is hard to play well; so far, honestly, Wycliffe Gordon is the best I have heard on it.)
(2) He sounds good to me on valve trumpet, but I don't know why. I would guess that idiosyncratic mouthpieces are more out of tune on range extremes, but I don't know that for sure. It's volume, depth, backbore that affect intonation, right? I am genuinely curious how big a mouthipece you can make before it affects intonation.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of things he does "wrong" (slapping down the valves for instance - disrupts the embouchure, wavers the pitch, and wears the ____ out of the casings) - but that he is successful in the net performance, that his efforts are enjoyed by his audience, speaks to the inherent diversity in musical tastes.

Listening to a sample of his trombone work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvhpj226ZNY) I find the same tonal concept is present in that as well. It is a recognizable tonal concept and playing style not unique to him. It appeals to some, to others, not so much.

It would be much harder to accomplish a more legit sound with that mouthpiece, and the playing style masks a lot of the potential issues if one were not playing in that style - but within the boundaries of the sound he (and don't forget his audience) goes for, it seems to work.

For someone trying to play in a chamber setting - that mouthpiece would be catastrophic.

Think how boring the world would be though if we didn't have music that ranged from what we want to hear again and again, to what we would rather listen to finger nails on a chalkboard than sit through another moment of.
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