Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator

[bnbechtel]

So, I'm going through the Mouthpiece Comparator, and I notice things, like the very minor differences between a Bach 6 and a Bach 3 (no letter on either.)

Then there's this. It looks like a Bach 6 is deeper than a Bach 3B:



But then I think, can these minute differences really make a difference?

I guess lips are very sensitive, and can tell the difference between rims, but on screen, it looks like the differences are so small that they should be imperceptible.

Then I was looking on eBay, and there's a Vincent Bach New York 6 cornet mouthpiece up, and I was interested in trying it because I like the Vincent Bach Corp 6 trumpet mouthpiece that I have, and it looks like the Bach New York 6 is actually a very shallow mouthpiece.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334220556512

So I don't know. That's a tangent.

I'm probably going to try a Curry 3TC for a normal sized shank cornet piece, if I can track one down.

Either that or a Bach 3B.

But man!

[Irving]

I think that the comparator is basically worthless. To say that there is hardly any difference between a 6 and a 3 is saying that you haven't tried them together. I'd pay more attention to the numbering system. They give you an idea of the relative size in each family. The 6 really does have a smaller diameter than the 3, and you will notice if you try them together. I have a NY 6C which is deeper than a corp 6B. You never know the history of those old mouthpieces, and whether or not they had been altered previously.

[Subtropical and Subpar]

I too have found it odd that Bach B (and) C cups with different rim sizes have slightly different cups, that is to say the B cup in a Bach 5B is not necessarily the same as in a Bach 3B. I've tried a variety of Bach B cups for cornet, all 'normal shank,' I believe, and I preferred the tone of the 5B best. The inner diameter was just too small for my liking, though. I suppose I'm not alone, as Austin Custom Brass makes a few mouthpieces that are Bach 5B cups on larger rims like a 1.5 or 1.25, and I mean these are different mouthpieces than their 1.5 B and 1.25 B pieces.

After a bit of bouncing around for my personal Goldilocks B cup cornet mouthpiece - ACB 3B, Bach 1.5 B Megatone - I wound up scoring a used Monette B11 after about a year of searching, which I guess is equivalent to a B cup with an inner rim a bit bigger than a Bach 1 series. The 1.5B Megatone had a broadly similar profile, but too much mass - it was very hard to play with any sort of agility on it. Plus I use a B11 on trumpet a lot, so it's a natural fit.
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1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel

[kehaulani]

Isn't there some question regarding the accuracy of the Comparator?
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[giakara]

Just compare the Reeves 43S with the Marcinkiewicz Bob Findley mouthpiece, they look 100% same but believe me they are not.

Regards
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Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
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Reeves/Purviance mpcs

[gwood66]

"It looks like a Bach 6 is deeper than a Bach 3B"

Based on the Bach mouthpiece manual, it is. The 3B cup is medium deep and the 6 cup is listed as deep. The difference in diameter between the pieces according the manual is 16.2 mm for the 6 series vs 16.3 mm for the 3 series.
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[TKSop]

[TKSop]

[TKSop]

[Chadwick]

[TKSop]

[kehaulani]

Since we're on kind'a the same topic, does anybody know how to compare the late 50s-early 60s Bach 6B compared to today's? Thanks.

Just found out. So, that would be a Mt. Vernon 6B mpc compared to a modern Bach 6B.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[lipshurt]

The two scans in the original post are pretty significantly different from each other. Rims different, and cup shapes quite different.

Those are for sure two mouthpieces that won’t play the same, and about every single player would notice it right off on a blindfold test.
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[Irving]

Bach's measurements are indeed useless. But, their system of describing the depth and width of their models, relative to each other make sense. The 6 will be a little smaller than a 5, and the 7 will be smaller than a 6 and so on. Compare the 3C and a 5C cup, and you will realize that they are not the same. But the 3C will be shallower than a 3B. So the depths are relative to each other within the same family. Nowhere does Bach claim that their rims in the same family are the same, because they are not. Yes Bach has inconsistencies, and I have seen major screw ups. Maybe less now that they use CNC lathes. As far as comparing Bach to other brands, that is something you need to learn on your own. If you want to trust the comparator, go ahead. Better to trust your own chops when trying to compare diameters.

[scottfsmith]

The moral here is a very small difference in measurement makes a very big difference in how they play. Those comparator scans are accurate. Design a couple mouthpieces and you will start to see big differences between those two scans.

Re: Bach, the sizes are not even ordered by the numbers. A modern 7C is bigger than a 1 1/2C in all dimensions except the cup right by the lip.
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