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american boy Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Posts: 344 Location: ny
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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For 4G`s heres what you can do: Get an Olds Recording for 2G`s and send me rest! LOL |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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A no brainer: 10 Monette Unity mouthpieces |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1924 Location: WI
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | A no brainer: 10 Monette Unity mouthpieces |
Hey, I'll bet "Aspeyrer" and "Subtropical and Subpar" will have something to say about that
suggestion . . . |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Halflip wrote: | Irving wrote: | A no brainer: 10 Monette Unity mouthpieces |
Hey, I'll bet "Aspeyrer" and "Subtropical and Subpar" will have something to say about that
suggestion . . . |
Nah, all of my Monette mouthpieces are from the 90s and work just fine. I'd sink $4k into either a new piccolo or several old cornets that I have no particular use for. Or maybe 4,000 Yamaha or Bach mouthpieces at cost because I have been told they cost one dollar to make. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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CalicchioMan Veteran Member
Joined: 31 May 2004 Posts: 336 Location: Florida
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: 4K |
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Look into Yamaha trumpets!
Best,
Scott _________________ Yamaha 8310ZII
Yamaha 631G Flugelhorn
Mendini Superbone
Pickett Mouthpieces |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Picking up the mouthpiece idea as well. In your case a piece like a Curry TC or a GR FD could make sense. You seem to have a Mariachi-able trumpet or two and are looking to just change the sound for some tunes.
I had both the TC and FD pieces, kept the Curry because intonation on the FD cup (for me) was hard to control. Great sound on both, though.
These pieces will change/darken/soften/… your sound a lot. You won’t be mistaken for a flugel, but the sound is quite striking. I like my TC for that exact effect and contrast to my AR Resonance and Lotus pieces, which are much shallower.
You’ll still have 3900 bucks to spend, though 🥳 _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | ericmpena wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | Do you own a flugelhorn? |
I do not, but flugelhorns are typically not used in mariachi except in a few recordings. It would be great if I could keep a flugelhorn with me for the times when I want that dark sound…but it’s just no possible to have 2 horns with me during a mariachi gig. |
Mariachi is exactly why I asked about flugelhorn. If the bulk of your work is Mariachi, and authentic Mariachi at that, I question your seeking a Goldilocks horn that will allow you that yet playing darkish. It seems to me you really need a Mariachi-specific horn and for darker work another horn, perhaps a flugelhorn. You an regulate the flugelhorn's relative darkness with mouthpieces.
If it were me, I'd get a Conn Connstellation, Yamaha Mariachi or Bach Mariachi. If you can find one, perhaps an Olds Mendez model, and then a flugelhorn. With both of these you should have all your bases covered. |
+1 to this. To me (1) Mariachi + dark seems like a strange combination and (2) it sounds like the AW horn you have now is their concert horn, which I am guessing is darker, certainly darker than the other of their horns you mentioned, the "Broadway" 466, (3) there are some good posts on bright/dark on TH and they're worth a read. I'd probably just buy one of the Mariachi horns (beyond Bach and Yamaha, Carolbrass also makes one). |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:07 am Post subject: |
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You've already been through a lot of horns which, I suspect, you could find one that you can use. You haven't posted an example of the sound you seek. And the written word seems to be a little vague. Maybe you should take the advice above and visit a horn shop with many horns you can try.
You don't have that in middle Texas so maybe your answer is to take some of that $4,000.00 you have and take a trip to a shop that will give you the first-hand variety you want.
A couple of years ago, I had a serious quest for The horn and decided to do the same thing. It was just too theoretical, so I traveled to a shop that was first class.
I narrowed it down to three horns but just couldn't find a tie breaker between them. After a while, the head repairman came onto the room and hung a horn on the wall. I asked what that was and he said he just finished working it and was putting it on display.
I took it off the wall and put it through its paces and just went Wow. That was my horn. That was THE horn. I got a lot of use out of that horn. Going to that shop became the most effective thing I did. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | Picking up the mouthpiece idea as well. In your case a piece like a Curry TC or a GR FD could make sense. You seem to have a Mariachi-able trumpet or two and are looking to just change the sound for some tunes.
I had both the TC and FD pieces, kept the Curry because intonation on the FD cup (for me) was hard to control. Great sound on both, though.
These pieces will change/darken/soften/… your sound a lot. You won’t be mistaken for a flugel, but the sound is quite striking. I like my TC for that exact effect and contrast to my AR Resonance and Lotus pieces, which are much shallower.
You’ll still have 3900 bucks to spend, though 🥳 |
Lemme toss in a word for Austin Custom Brass's TF and FX mouthpiece lines, while we're at it. Both are flugel / flugel-ish cups, and as someone who plays a horn explicitly labelled a Mariachi horn (Kanstul 991, based on the Connstellation 38B which a lot of Mariachi players used over the years and decades), I can attest that a TF will considerably thicken and darken the sound. Make it a dark horn? Not exactly. You wouldn't mistake it for a cornet or a 72 bell. But it certainly takes the edge off. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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We're not overcomplicating things, are we? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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OK, maybe 10 Monette mouthpieces aren't necessary. But 5, yes! So 5 Monette U's, and a $2000 custom made leather case, made out of the finest organically raised Australian kangaroo leather, with detachable pouch, complete with rare gem inlays, and biotech locks. Buy now, prices are only going to go up! |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 654 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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My advise: spend your money to a good trumpet teacher; I remember seeing a concert with Jarmo Hoogendijk, I think it was 15 years ago. He was playing in a bebop combo, using his 60's Conn Connstellation. His sounds where between very deep and warm lyric to high compressed lead with sparkles and he didn't change his mouthpiece to achieve this sounds! The same experience I got when I met Erik Vloeimans during a masterclass. Erik was making the complete sound pallet between a flugelhorn and a commercial high energy trumpet just with his Van Laar Oriam trumpet, again with no mouthpiece changing!
Don't think money can bring you the artistic needs that you want to forfill, you'll have to do it your own. Maybe a good teacher can offer you a helping hand _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | OK, maybe 10 Monette mouthpieces aren't necessary. But 5, yes! So 5 Monette U's, and a $2000 custom made leather case, made out of the finest organically raised Australian kangaroo leather, with detachable pouch, complete with rare gem inlays, and biotech locks. Buy now, prices are only going to go up! |
In the mid-90s I bought a new Monette mouthpiece for $190 and a new Bach Strad for $974. Today a Monette mouthpiece costs $410 and a Bach Strad costs $3,500. So over 25 years the nominal dollar cost of a Monette mouthpiece has gone up 133% and the price of a Bach Strad has increased 259.3%. Where are all the "Buy now, prices are only going to go up!" comments on Bach Strads, or Yamahas, given that their price increases have far outstripped Monette's? I am genuinely curious. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Nonprokingdom Regular Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Subtropical and Subpar"][quote="Irving"]OK, maybe 10 Monette mouthpieces aren't necessary. But 5, yes! So 5 Monette U's, and a $2000 custom made leather case, made out of the finest organically raised Australian kangaroo leather, with detachable pouch, complete with rare gem inlays, and biotech locks. Buy now, prices are only going to go up![/quote]
In the mid-90s I bought a new Monette mouthpiece for $190 and a new Bach Strad for $974. Today a Monette mouthpiece costs $410 and a Bach Strad costs $3,500. So over 25 years the nominal dollar cost of a Monette mouthpiece has gone up 133% and the price of a Bach Strad has increased 259.3%. Where are all the "Buy now, prices are only going to go up!" comments on Bach Strads, or Yamahas, given that their price increases have far outstripped Monette's? I am genuinely curious.[/quote]
Most Monette trumpet mouthpieces cost under $300. Only one model costs $415. Your numbers are off, considerably. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Nonprokingdom wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Irving wrote: | OK, maybe 10 Monette mouthpieces aren't necessary. But 5, yes! So 5 Monette U's, and a $2000 custom made leather case, made out of the finest organically raised Australian kangaroo leather, with detachable pouch, complete with rare gem inlays, and biotech locks. Buy now, prices are only going to go up! |
In the mid-90s I bought a new Monette mouthpiece for $190 and a new Bach Strad for $974. Today a Monette mouthpiece costs $410 and a Bach Strad costs $3,500. So over 25 years the nominal dollar cost of a Monette mouthpiece has gone up 133% and the price of a Bach Strad has increased 259.3%. Where are all the "Buy now, prices are only going to go up!" comments on Bach Strads, or Yamahas, given that their price increases have far outstripped Monette's? I am genuinely curious. |
Most Monette trumpet mouthpieces cost under $300. Only one model costs $415. Your numbers are off, considerably. |
That most Monette mouthpieces are $300 only reinforces my point. As youll recall, since you created a new account the other day to comment on the Monette Unity thread, the recent contention on TH is over the $410 Monette Unity mouthpieces. The rest of my numbers are entirely accurate. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Rickperon Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 126 Location: Tucson, AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Eric (?).... Paul Deemer who lives there in Austin is a B.A.C. Trombone & Trumpet Artist, I recently played a festival with him (The band Calexico) and was primarily playing trumpet, I was really digging his sound (subjective I know) on a Paseo (?) model, brushed.... you can probably locate him through pauldeemer.com He may even let you try his..... happy hunting!
Rick Peron |
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Nonprokingdom Regular Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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You definitely have an issue with numbers;
Monette Unity pieces cost $415.
You have just refuted your own point. Trolling yourself is a new level, I dig it. |
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ericmpena Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 Posts: 262 Location: Kyle, TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Rickperon wrote: | Hi Eric (?).... Paul Deemer who lives there in Austin is a B.A.C. Trombone & Trumpet Artist, I recently played a festival with him (The band Calexico) and was primarily playing trumpet, I was really digging his sound (subjective I know) on a Paseo (?) model, brushed.... you can probably locate him through pauldeemer.com He may even let you try his..... happy hunting!
Rick Peron |
Yeah, I know Paul. I’ve played a few salsa gigs with him before. Great trombone player! I didn’t know he played trumpet as well. I’ll have to reach out and ask him about that.
Thanks! |
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ericmpena Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 Posts: 262 Location: Kyle, TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies. I’ve been wanting to respond but weekends are insanely busy for me. Finally finished up with gigs so now I can maybe give a few more details about what I’m hoping to find.
First, I finally found a video where the sound is near exactly what I’m looking for. The horn is a Coppernicus. Take a listen at 4:50 in the video. The sound with the TA1-CS mouthpiece is in my head what I’m going for. Something that can be bright up top, but mellows out when you come back to the mid or low range.
Video: https://youtu.be/OlrRaO-m1wI
Any other horns out there with similar characteristics? Something that can be both a little dark and then bright…depending on how you play it?
Again, I’d prefer brushed brass. I’m not a fan of polished finishes…but I guess the sound is priority.
I’m not super familiar with warranties either, but with this kind of money I think I’d prefer something that has a fantastic warranty and company that stands behind their product.
My current AW Stage 460 sounds good, but I’m wanting just a tad bit more round of a sound. Also, the playability on the 460 is fair, but not nearly as good as the Stage 466 I played. The 466 felt effortless and extremely responsive. I could be done with questions and just purchase the 466, but before I drop $3500 on the AW Stage 466, I’d like to know which other horns could give me similar results…or better results…for the same price or even a little more.
Unfortunately, I have little knowledge when it comes to equipment like mouthpieces and horns. I don’t know the ins and outs of what to look for specifically to make a horn better than others…I just use whatever works for me. So any pointers are greatly appreciated!
I know I don’t like 470 bore. 460 bore is okay, but after playing the 466 I realize now what I’m missing out on.
I don’t like bells that are so flared that the sounds spreads too much. I don’t like the typical Strad trumpet sound that I get out of my Bach 43.
The Balanced Ballad 1 weighed too much for me to want to hold for more than 1-2 hours a day. Slotting was also a little too loose. Visually it was beautiful. I would buy it if my arms were stronger!
I don’t like polished finished. I have very acidic hands and found that brushed finishes seem to look better for longer than when I play polished horns. Not sure why that is. My hand still eats away the lacquer on brushed horns, but it’s just not as noticeable.
At this point, the AW Stage 466 and Adam’s A4 probably have my attention the most.
I’m still doing research on the AR Resonance and Edwards. |
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