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Kanstul Parts?? (Finger Buttons)


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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winghorn wrote:
Divitt Trumpets wrote:
Kanstul does use 8-32, but the other critical measurement is the depth of the skirt on the underside of the button, as that sets the downstroke alignment.


Depends on the horn. Instruments like Benges (and my Destino 5*) use felt pads to set the downstroke alignment. The skirt never touches anything.


The skirt needs to be deep enough to set the depth of the stem when screwed on to the button.
Either the skirt hits the top cap felt, or the button felt hits the chimney of the top cap. Either way, screwing up the skirt depth will throw the alignment off.
If the skirt is to shallow on a button that hits the top cap felt, it may also hit the chimney and cause clicking. This is something that has to be perfect for the new Yamaha models. Their button changed just slightly and if you don't get that skit depth perfect, it will make noise on the chimney.
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winghorn wrote:
Divitt Trumpets wrote:
Kanstul does use 8-32, but the other critical measurement is the depth of the skirt on the underside of the button, as that sets the downstroke alignment.


Depends on the horn. Instruments like Benges (and my Destino 5*) use felt pads to set the downstroke alignment. The skirt never touches anything.


(Edited -- Divitt Trumpets responded at the same time I was writing this, and did a better job of addressing what I was trying to explain.)
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I am dense.

Unless the skirt (edge) of the button is very long, only the felt underneath hits the "chimney" on the top valve cap when the valve is depressed. My caps allow the use of pads of quite different thicknesses to vary the down stroke.

On instruments like Bach that use felts (bumpers) in groves on the top of the valve caps for alignment, the depth of the skirts would indeed be critical.

Or am I totally misunderstanding you?
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Kanstul Destino and horns like Benges have "chimneys" that are raised above the level of the rest of the cap. On Benges, the chimney looks to be at least an eighth of an inch proud of the cap. The skirt of a particular valve button would have to be very long for the button edge to strike the cap.
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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stem inside the skirt combined with the edge of the skirt determines the downstroke of the piston. Too shallow a skirt means the piston can sit too low. Too deep and it can sit high.
If that dimension is changed, then you have to compensate in one of a few ways. Thinner or thicker felts, shimming the stem so the button sits higher, shortening the skirt so the button sits lower, shortening the top cap chimney so the piston goes down further, or modifying the valve stem. Depending on who does the precision alignment, the preferred method will vary.

For fabricating buttons from scratch without the instrument in hand, you must copy the original dimensions of the skirt and stem if you want to get the alignment close. If you just guess, you are asking for trouble.
Generally the skirt depth is around .075"-.100", but there are outliers, like Yamaha's previous generation, which are .040" and Meinlschmidt, which are about .116".
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