So I bought an S22HD

[kurth83]

I'm a comeback classical player, so I can't comment on the range of this thing. The videos of ppl playing it had the sound I was looking for, so I had at least that much advance info on it.

From earlier reviews around here I got the impression it was about 70% of the way from a lightweight open Schilke to a heavyweight Bach/Yamaha Chicago, and is a reasonable horn for smaller orchestras, which is all I do, so it seemed like a perfect choice on paper. I can't comment if all that's really true since I don't have the experience to know.

My previous horns have all been lightweight horns, I own a Claude Gordon Selmer, and a Schilke B6, which sit at pretty much opposite extremes of the openness spectrum but are both very lively horns. Neither produces a decent classical tone, especially when pushed, and at this stage of my life I finally have the funds to try some horns that are more appropriate for my chosen genre. And the internet makes info available that once was the secret domain of conservatories that us unwashed amateurs were not privy to.

I can state that it's the best horn I've ever owned from a classical perspective. And I was pretty amazed at what I was missing. Part of me wants to try a Yamaha Chicago model to see what the remaining 30% feels like. I don't know if there are both C and Bb versions of that either.

The main surprise that other reviews didn't mention is that it takes a lot of air to play, but it is an effortless kind of thing, you just relax into the horn and let the air flow, and out comes the most beautiful tone I've ever produced. It slots well without forcing you into undesirable intonation, and the word effortless (big breaths notwithstanding) both from an accuracy and blow standpoint really characterize this horn. I suppose it might be too open for some, but coming from the Claude Gordon school of brass playing - that prefers more open horns - it feels pretty good to me.

I did have to mate it with the biggest most open mouthpiece I have which is a Lasky-made CGP clone on to a Schilke 15B (rounded) rim. The V cup and 20 hole lets a lot of air flow into the horn and it plays wonderfully. Others have called it 'stable', and that the notes are right there, that it somehow helps you to not miss notes (I don't know if there is modern jargon for this, I'm still catching up), but all of that seems to be true.

I think I want an S22CHD to match it. If it plays similarly, especially the intonation part (as C's are notorious for troublesome intonation), I think it would be a great horn for me.

Thoughts?

[OldSchoolEuph]

If the horn fits, play it!


and yes, Yamaha offers "Chicago" models in both Bb (YTR-9335CHS) and C (YTR-9445CHS).
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Dayton]

Congrats on your new horn! Schilke makes some of the highest-quality trumpets on the market. You have a feel for the #2 bell taper, and like the S22HD, so there is at least a decent chance you'll like the S22CHD.

Regarding the Yamaha Chicago models, I don't particularly like them -- though I do like the New York models -- but they are unquestionably fine horns. If the opportunity presents itself, give the Yamaha Chicago and New York models, the Bach 19037, Bach AB190, Shires A/AF/AZ models...a try to get a feel for horns that may have that "remaining 30 percent" you are referring to.

Have fun!

[Hiker74]

I am a comeback player and a forum member here had a lacquer S32HD and sold it to me. The only differences I can see from the specs is that the bore of the S22HD is .463 vs the .460 of my S32HD. All other pieces such as the bell taper etc is identical.

I used to play a #43 Strad 20 yrs ago and for me I can tell a huge difference in the overall quality of the slides as well as the valves with the Schilke being light years better than the Strad. My wife still has her #37 Strad and its a good horn, but still has noisy valves. Maybe my strad was a bad egg, but the Schilke blows more efficiently as well. My son is in 7th grade and just started playing and just like when I was in school Strads are still being pushed by educators, but while we will probably still look at Strads mine may end up with a used Schilke or something else for his step up horn after experiencing the difference. If nothing else it'll open up our options to look at others like Getzen, Adams and others. I'm sure Strads are still decent trumpets, but in terms of refinement Schilke really has them beat.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Why do people feel the need to say "I played a Bach in the last century - so the ones made today must be junk"?

Yes, the UAW almost ruined Bach in the 1990s - they are gone. Bach, particularly under the new owners, is building at a level never seen before.

Despite the more Bach-like characteristics the S series is designed to exhibit, those horns and Bach Strads are still quite different - as are the Yamaha Xenos with their Bach-37 heritage bells. All high quality, but with emphasis on different playability characteristics. Which works for a given player depends on the player, not the maker.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Hiker74]

[quote="OldSchoolEuph"]Why do people feel the need to say "I played a Bach in the last century - so the ones made today must be junk"?

I never said they were junk. We will still consider a Bach when my son is ready, but coming from my start in the early 80's/90's Bach was pushed as pretty much the only real option. I think its because that is what the biggest distributors had as their high volume brand. My post was aimed at showing that I now have an open mind and playing multiple horns for my son during the search for his step up horn will be the case and that my inkling is no longer only in the Bach space. I did play late 70's Bach 72 and it was very nice and the valves seemed better than the one I had.

[OldSchoolEuph]

Out of curiosity: If a Schilke S-series, Bach Strad and Yamaha Xeno are "step-up" in your book (a category normally defined by 4 & 5-series Yamahas, Jupiter 606s, CarolBrass 4 & 5-series, Eastman 8-series, Allora AATR-125, etc.), what do you consider "advanced" & "pro"?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[Hiker74]

[Andy Cooper]

[Hiker74]

I suppose your wife's trumpet could be so worn that the valves wobble in the casings causing noise but that would be uncommon.[/quote]

Her #37 has better valves than my #43, but that may be because the previous owners treated them poorly.
_________________
Jon Thomas
-Started playing again after 20yrs after my son just started playing in school
-Schilke S32HD

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello Kurth83,
Welcome to the TH. I have had my share of pro horns. in C, I have owned or own S22, C1L, C4, C5L, C3HD, Yamaha 6445 and a Bach 229/25A. At the end of the safari, I had a chance to play an S22HD and a C3HD at the NAMM show. Albeit, NAMM was not the right place to try horns, but I felt what I felt. I thought the C3HD had a little more projection and brightness to my liking. Now getting back to your horn. I don't know for sure, but I believe the S22 is a straight bore horn with the X valve casing. The HD horns are probably similar, just with heavier/thicker tubing. So matching up with an S22CHD, would probably have the same kind of sound/timbre, just with the quirks of a C horn. fourth space E has always been my test note, both in how flat and dead they sound. Top of staff G, sharpness for my second test note. Otherwise the Schilke scale, consistency and build are second to none. I do own a B2, B3 and play more regularly, an S33HD. I own a C4, C5L and my C3HD, with the later two getting an equal amount of use.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[Aaronis]

I also own a CG Selmer and a Schilke B6. You are correct, both a very different horns, and great horns. But I will say without a doubt, and I have played a lot of horns, that CG Selmer is the most responsive, smoothest, free blowing horn I have ever played and it's not even close. Whatever you do, don't ever sell it.

As far as the S22 goes, I can't comment but I'm sure it's a quality horn.
_________________
2018 Schilke B6
1980's CG Selmer
1976 CG L.A. Benge
1955 Mt. Vernon Bach
1947 Olds Super
Holton Revelation Model 48
1964 Holton Galaxy Cornet

[kurth83]

Thanks for the replies.

If i ever run into a Yamaha Chicago or New York I will give them a try too. Shires is new to me as a brand, although they do seem to come up here a lot.

Apologies if it sounded like I was dissing the CG Selmer. I prefer it for big band use (which is arguably what it was designed for). With the CGP mouthpiece, it is about as good as it gets, and yes, I will never sell it.

The B6 is also a wonderful instrument, I bought it for a dual purpose: thinking maybe I could learn to do commercial type playing, and also I had a theory that a smaller bore horn might work well for what I call virtuoso work like Mendez, because a breath goes so incredibly far on smaller horns. But mostly I just wanted to see if smaller horns were good for anything as I have only played more open horns in the past.

As an aside the main surprise for me with the smaller horn was that it takes a lot less air to play it with some fire, so what on an open horn would get in the the softer/darker end of the tonal range on the instrument gets into the brighter end on the smaller horn.