• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Martin T3460 kenosha or Selmer 80J



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
thekid777
New Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2021
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:09 am    Post subject: Martin T3460 kenosha or Selmer 80J Reply with quote

Hi T.H!
what would you do?
which one would be the one to get?
thank you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dayton
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 1186
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never played either. The Selmer Chorus 80J certainly seems to be the more sought after of the two, but that has no bearing on which might be better for you. If you are interested in the Martin, talk to Jim Becker at Osmun Music. I believe they offer a bell replacement for that horn to make it much closer to the original Committee. If you are interested in the Selmer, the Steve Dillard (aka The Horn Trader) is quite familiar with them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tony Scodwell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:58 am    Post subject: Kenosha Martin Reply with quote

I was around the Holton/LeBlanc company a good deal of time and my good friend Sandy Sandberg had left Getzen to work with them on some exiting new projects, among them a re-creation of the Martin Committee model.

They had to reverse engineer the Martin and Larry Ramirez was the head designer for the company in addition to being a fine jazz trumpet player. Larry worked with Miles personally to get the horn correct (in Mile's view) and the horn went into production being made with the precision Holton/LeBlanc was noted for. Vito Pascucci owned the company and the Martin brand was in his portfolio. Vito was a very quality minded individual and the instruments his company produced were top level. Vito's son Leon was in charge of designing advertising, cases and I presume the various colored lacquers used on the Martin along with the gold inlay engraving. Good stuff.

Larry did design work on the Holton MF horns played by Maynard Ferguson for many years and pretty much copied the Bach Strad with a Holton model. He did a cornet as well and his input on the Martin produced a really fine trumpet. Not many come up for sale and collectors seem enamored by them. I wonder if the current fascination with the old Martin Committee's would be as prevalent if Chris Botti was playing an old Selmer instead?

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwell@gmail.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Halflip
Veteran Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 495
Location: WI

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
If you are interested in the Martin, talk to Jim Becker at Osmun Music. I believe they offer a bell replacement for that horn to make it much closer to the original Committee.

I actually had Osmun do this conversion some years ago on a T3465 that I purchased on eBay. Frankly, I don't think it was an improvement -- the old Martin bell made the horn play 'thick', overly dark, and less 'agile'. My first reaction was, "Well, I guess it would be good for playing slow hymns in church." The bell seems (to me) to be too heavy and out-of-balance with the Larry Ramirez redesign. I still have the original bell and will probably have it reinstalled someday.

I am offering this with a BIG "YMMV" (and a sense of dread that other TH'ers who have this conversion will jump all over me with righteous indignation at my poor taste and impaired judgement . . . as is their custom sometimes ).

(By the way, in case someone thinks that I just don't understand the old Martin sound and playing qualities, I also have a mid-50's medium bore Committee that I think plays just great.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kaelos
New Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2021
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've currently got a T3460 Kenosha up for sale if that's what you decide
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leeway
Veteran Member


Joined: 06 Sep 2019
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Martin T3460 kenosha or Selmer 80J Reply with quote

thekid777 wrote:
Hi T.H!
what would you do?
which one would be the one to get?
thank you


Which type of T3460 do you mean?

Leblanc made two very different versions of this Model and of the T3465, which very few people seem to be aware of.

I've had so many 'experts' tell me the Trumpet I've played for the last 34 years doesn't exist that I'm reluctant to even mention it.

I've worked out that some things are worth keeping secret, but you can pm me if you are interested.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Divitt Trumpets
Veteran Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 256
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

80J hands down.
_________________
www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Brent
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 977
Location: St. Paul, MN

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:56 pm    Post subject: martin Reply with quote

From what I recall, the Holton version of Martin Committees received a lukewarm reception at best. A lot people didn't like them because they were nothing like the older versions. The bell was different, it wasn't a step bore horn, even the reverse lead pipe for the later models wasn't the same. I was the exception to the rule: I actually liked the new ones better. Loved the sound and I have yet to try a step bore horn I've liked. The T3460 was their medium large bore, and the T3465 was a large bore, and lighter weight. I thought the T3460 was better, as the T3465 I had was the most one of the most out of tune pro horns I've ever owned. The T3460 had a darker tone as well, and was easier to play.

I recall saying way back when on the TH forum that I liked the T3460 better than the originals and boy, did I get in trouble!
_________________
Brent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 7921
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played a Kenosha Committee once and thought it was.... fine. Nothing special. It wasn't a long playtest.

I've played an 80J a few times and every time I've been "Woh, I should really get one of these. What a horn!"

The 80J is a pretty open, free blowing horn.

But, really, like most things, it's down to personal taste.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voltrane
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 567
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
I've played a Kenosha Committee once and thought it was.... fine. Nothing special. It wasn't a long playtest.

I've played an 80J a few times and every time I've been "Woh, I should really get one of these. What a horn!"

The 80J is a pretty open, free blowing horn.

But, really, like most things, it's down to personal taste.


+1
I had the opportunity to play a 80j a lot of years ago. At this time I unfortunately did not have the money to buy it. Today I still regret it and if I had the opportunity to find a good one, I would buy it, even if I am very happy with my Xeno RGS ( it would not replace the Xeno but I would use the 80j for small jazz combo)
Never played a KC.
_________________
S’il n’en reste qu’un je serai celui là (Victor Hugo)
Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RETrumpet
Veteran Member


Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Martin T3460 kenosha or Selmer 80J Reply with quote

Leeway wrote:
thekid777 wrote:
Hi T.H!
what would you do?
which one would be the one to get?
thank you


Which type of T3460 do you mean?

Leblanc made two very different versions of this Model and of the T3465, which very few people seem to be aware of.

I've had so many 'experts' tell me the Trumpet I've played for the last 34 years doesn't exist that I'm reluctant to even mention it.

I've worked out that some things are worth keeping secret, but you can pm me if you are interested.


I've got one of these, too. They exist.
_________________
Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, YTR-8335S(2), Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe
D/Eb: YTR-761
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Modified Blessing, Scodwell
Monette Mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Halflip
Veteran Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 495
Location: WI

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Martin T3460 kenosha or Selmer 80J Reply with quote

Leeway wrote:
Leblanc made two very different versions of this Model and of the T3465, which very few people seem to be aware of.

RETrumpet wrote:
I've got one of these, too. They exist.

I'm aware of it! I don't own one, but way back when Leblanc first bought Martin from Wurlitzer, I saw a promo sheet for their first version of the Committee trumpet and went down to the Leblanc factory in Kenosha to try one that they had on hand. It looked more like the 'classic' Committee (and probably used some parts acquired from Wurlitzer). It was definitely different from the Larry Ramirez 'redesign'; I do have one of those (a T3465), so I know what they look like too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2810
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Halflip"]
Dayton wrote:
If you are interested in the Martin, talk to Jim Becker at Osmun Music. I believe they offer a bell replacement for that horn to make it much closer to the original Committee.

I actually had Osmun do this conversion some years ago on a T3465 that I purchased on eBay. Frankly, I don't think it was an improvement -- the old Martin bell made the horn play 'thick', overly dark, and less 'agile'. My first reaction was, "Well, I guess it would be good for playing slow hymns in church." The bell seems (to me) to be too heavy and out-of-balance with the Larry Ramirez redesign. I still have the original bell and will probably have it reinstalled someday.

I am offering this with a BIG "YMMV" (and a sense of dread that other TH'ers who have this conversion will jump all over me with righteous indignation at my poor taste and impaired judgement . . . as is their custom sometimes ).


I would like point out the the T3435 is lacking the telescoping bore of the original Elkhart Martin design. Rather than having a medium bore top tuning slide leg going into a tapered crook expanding to large bore. Starting at the reversed top leg it reaches .465" large bore and continues through the rest of the main tuning slide.

This reminds me of the time Wallace Roney, RIP, present me with a box of Martin parts from different eras including an Elkhart Martin gold brass bell (same shape as the L-bore Committee) to assemble into a trumpet. Having no original tapered crook I proceeded to fabricate a telescoping slide starting with a medium bore reverse tube at the end of the mouthpipe, followed by a medium large crook, ending with the a large bore lower slide before entering the Kenosha Martin T3465 valve set. Upon receiving it back Wallace phoned to inform me he was thrilled with the results. So you see, there's a bit more I was able to accomplish by emulating the original tuning slide design, albeit cylindrically.

I hope this is helpful. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Halflip
Veteran Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 495
Location: WI

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:


I would like point out the the T3435 is lacking the telescoping bore of the original Elkhart Martin design. Rather than having a medium bore top tuning slide leg going into a tapered crook expanding to large bore. Starting at the reversed top leg it reaches .465" large bore and continues through the rest of the main tuning slide.

This reminds me of the time Wallace Roney, RIP, present me with a box of Martin parts from different eras including an Elkhart Martin gold brass bell (same shape as the L-bore Committee) to assemble into a trumpet. Having no original tapered crook I proceeded to fabricate a telescoping slide starting with a medium bore reverse tube at the end of the mouthpipe, followed by a medium large crook, ending with the a large bore lower slide before entering the Kenosha Martin T3465 valve set. Upon receiving it back Wallace phoned to inform me he was thrilled with the results. So you see, there's a bit more I was able to accomplish by emulating the original tuning slide design, albeit cylindrically.


Just out of curiosity, are you implying by these statements that the original Martin bell conversion you were promoting for Leblanc Martins actually doesn't turn out the way a customer would hope unless you also do a conversion to simulate a tapered main tuning slide? If so, what would you charge for this additional alteration? (I'd like to be thrilled with the results too. )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group