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HoosierBrass Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Why lightweight body for Bach LR180 horns? |
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Was there a specific reason why the LR180 version has a lightweight body (and regular weight bell) as opposed to the typical 180 standard weight body and bell? I know they have the LT version with lightweight body and bell. I was curious how/why it relates to the leadpipe design or why they decided to use the lightweight body for their LR180 horns? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9003 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Why lightweight body for Bach LR180 horns? |
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HoosierBrass wrote: | Was there a specific reason why the LR180 version has a lightweight body (and regular weight bell) as opposed to the typical 180 standard weight body and bell? I know they have the LT version with lightweight body and bell. I was curious how/why it relates to the leadpipe design or why they decided to use the lightweight body for their LR180 horns? |
I'm second guessing them, but I think their aim was to make as light a horn as they could but in the process, didn't want to thin out the bell for tone reasons. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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The combination reduces overall inertia so the horn speaks easier - improving endurance for some players and allowing greater security at soft dynamics - particularly with wider intervals. At the same time, the heavier bell prevents "breaking" of the tone at higher dynamics. (Of course when you tire, its also that much easier to miss the partial you were aiming for...)
Its a pretty good balance - regardless of leadpipe construction (case in point: Holton TM-2000 which is essentially the same horn only not reversed) _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Many pros in England prefers the standard weight horn with reverse leadpipe and water key on thirdslide , check the Bach strad 37 and 43 London model.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7010 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchool is correct. This concept was used in designing the Wild Thing line of trumpets and cornets. The valve section tubing was much thinner than Kanstul’s own products and it gave the Flip Oakes line its remarkable response and flexibility while still providing good slotting to the accomplished player.
The WT bell was originally spec’ed to be made from thin .018” brass sheet, but ended up needing heavier .022” stock to keep from collapsing during the buffing process. This “standard weight” bell meant the Wild Thing could perform solidly at any volume a player can generate. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2047 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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That’s an interesting question: I always thought let’s take a standard or heavy body and a lightweight bell. That way you would transfer most of the energy to the bell and not lose it along the way. Looks like I was wrong - if I am not mistaken, the Bach Mariachi is using the concept described by the OP and seems to work well.
Thinking of it, my Bach is using the same concept, just one more step towards the heavy side: standard body, heavy bell - this would translate to lightweight body and standard bell if „translated into lighter weight“. Interesting. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:13 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | https://philparker.co.uk/product/vincent-bach-stradivarius-r180s43g-london-model-bb-trumpet-with-gold-brass-bell
Regards |
I don’t understand what you are trying to communicate in this thread. The horns in both of your posts, standard weight, are the opposite of what the OP is asking about, lightweight body.
How does posting about standard weight horns relate to the question “Was there a specific reason why the LR180 version has a lightweight body?”
I am not trying to be confrontational, I just don’t get it. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Probably I didn't get well and I try to say that is a other oppion if he want it , I had try the London model and it was much better than the light body version of LR model , my English is poor and some times I make mistakes, sorry.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2344 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | That’s an interesting question: I always thought let’s take a standard or heavy body and a lightweight bell. That way you would transfer most of the energy to the bell and not lose it along the way. Looks like I was wrong - if I am not mistaken, the Bach Mariachi is using the concept described by the OP and seems to work well. |
Years ago a friend of mine tried to special order a Bach Strad trumpet with a standard-weight body and a lightweight 43 bell. This was before Internet commerce, not to mention the "Build a Bach" webtool, so he was working through a local dealer.
Bach wouldn't build it. My friend pressed the issue and ended up on the phone with someone at the Bach plant who said they wouldn't build that configuration because it wouldn't work.
I just played around with the "Build a Bach" tool and sure enough, you can't combine a standard-weight body with a 43* bell. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 903
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Not to go off topic since the OP asked about a lightweight body and regular weight bell, but for Bach to say a standard weight body and lightweight bell won't work runs counter to the various Mike Vax Model horns, which regardless of which company made them at the time. To the best of my knowledge, they were all based on a regular weight body and lightweight bell. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | Probably I didn't get well and I try to say that is a other oppion if he want it , I had try the London model and it was much better than the light body version of LR model , my English is poor and some times I make mistakes, sorry.
Regards |
I did and do realize that you don’t speak English as your primary language. Hence why I was asking for clarification. Your English is much better than my non-existent Greek. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | Brassnose wrote: | That’s an interesting question: I always thought let’s take a standard or heavy body and a lightweight bell. That way you would transfer most of the energy to the bell and not lose it along the way. Looks like I was wrong - if I am not mistaken, the Bach Mariachi is using the concept described by the OP and seems to work well. |
Years ago a friend of mine tried to special order a Bach Strad trumpet with a standard-weight body and a lightweight 43 bell. This was before Internet commerce, not to mention the "Build a Bach" webtool, so he was working through a local dealer.
Bach wouldn't build it. My friend pressed the issue and ended up on the phone with someone at the Bach plant who said they wouldn't build that configuration because it wouldn't work.
I just played around with the "Build a Bach" tool and sure enough, you can't combine a standard-weight body with a 43* bell. |
well, that's just not true. I just went to build-a-Bach and configured a 180-43*. Beyond that, the modern standard body and lightweight bell is exactly what was standard before 1965. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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