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oiling valves via slides


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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best result when oiling pistons is achieved by complete removal of each piston, wiping the piston and casing off with a moist chamois cloth, covering the piston completely with a layer of oil, dropping a little oil in casing, and reassembling.

This procedure removes any abraded metal powder and dirt that is left on the piston / casing surface and ensures silky smooth action.

When time does not permit, lifting the piston a little out of the casing, and putting a few drops of oil from above will work. However, the result will not be nearly as good unless the complete procedure is also followed once a week or so.

Oiling the valve surfaces via slides is an option for rotary valves (one has to use the heavier bearing oil for the linkages and spindles). Here, too, better results are achieved by applying the oil to the side of the rotor after unscrewing the bottom caps, as discussed here.
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, there doesn't seem to be a general consensus on a necessary and seemingly simple task we have all done thousands of times.

For me it would be a lot easier and faster to just use the leadpipe as mentioned. I don't see a real downside to that.

I wonder where any of the techs and/or manufacturers would come in on the topic?.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a variety of methods depending on the situation. I employed most of the methods mentioned here though I've decided not to oil through the bottom caps since that seems the most likely to wash crud in the cylinders.

I appreciate the rigor in removing, wiping, and pouring lots of oil over a trashcan. But there are lots of situations where that would greatly increase the chances I'd drop something.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

omelet wrote:
Crazy Finn wrote:

Just because others do it doesn't mean that it's the best way or that they have a clue.

The best way is to oil the valves directly. Take the valves partly or fully out and oil the actual surface of the valve and not the stem. This is the only answer.

The other methods might have some supposed side benefits - maybe oil down the leadpipe is good for corrosion or something. But, there is no way that oiling through the leadpipe or the bottom of the caps or the second slide or whatever is better for actually lubricating the pistons. It might be faster, it might be less effort, it might supposedly have some marginal corrosion thing, it might work fine for some players, but it's not better for actual valve action than doing it directly.


If the method used gets oil on the pistons, then it lubricates the pistons. Putting it directly on the piston doesn't lubricate it any better, so no, it isn't the only answer. If I can get the same outcome with less time or effort then I would prefer to do that.


There are two parts to oiling - first, more obvious, is to add oil to surfaces that do not have enough of it. The second part is even more important: to remove the dust comprised of metal, metal oxide and hydroxide powder. This dust is generated by friction and oxidation of piston and casing surfaces; less so if they are separated by a layer of lubricant. Inevitably, the sliding surfaces break through the lubricant, come into contact, and cold-weld. Breaking of the weld leaves sharp ridges on both surfaces that become the source of extra dust as they protrude closer to the opposite surface.

The worn metal powder, in contact with air, water and saliva, gets converted into metal oxide and hydroxide that have hardness higher than the metal alloy of the piston, and are similar in composition to a lapping compound. It is the oxide/hydroxide dust that creates friction and crunchiness in valve action, and needs to be removed before oiling can have any positive effect.
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omelet
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should oil it before the valves are sticky like that. Plus, what, you're pulling them out essentially dry with that "lapping compound" in there? Oh no! The fact is, if it is easier, then it will be done more regularly, versus wetting a chamois and giving a bath to each piston each day. Give me a break. Do you do that with your lawnmower?
The oil will go in the space between the valve and piston due to the effect of capillary action in the clearance, no matter which way is up.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only horn I’ve ever oiled through the slides is a 150 year old string rotary valve cornet without removable bottom caps. It was the only way to oil them without completely undoing the string mechanism and pulling the rotors out from the top. On my piston horns, I just pull the valve partially out and put a little oil at the top of the piston. Gravity and valve use will spread it downward. Of course, every so often, they need to be pulled out, cleaned, and re-oiled.
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Dave_3
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an old joke that can be adapted to many different situations, and this is one of them.

Q: How do you start an argument?

A: Put ten trumpet players in a room, and ask them how to oil the valves.


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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave_3 wrote:
There is an old joke that can be adapted to many different situations, and this is one of them.

Q: How do you start an argument?

A: Put ten trumpet players in a room, and ask them how to oil the valves.



Need to talk about less controversial topics ... like politics and religion.

Humor aside, it's interesting to see how others oil their valves. I actually do what etc-etc does. Once a week, I wipe down my valves and casings with a microfiber cloth, wipe crud out of the vents with a tissue, and then oil the valves. I pretty much never have to re-oil outside this weekly task.

Mike
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oliver king
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blow a few drops of oil down the leadpipe and work valves and slides at the start of my practice day. I remove valves and rinse them down and wipe out valve caps at the end of my practice day. brushing and swabbing is important too.
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