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Spielberg West Side Story


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TMT
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject: Spielberg West Side Story Reply with quote

Mambo from the new film is pretty mediocre...UNTIL Wayne Bergeron comes in on the solo with his trademark shake a la Maynard. Laugh out loud ballsy moment of pure fun!

https://youtu.be/MQfxJJKlb1c
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CalicchioMan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: MAMBO Reply with quote

Yeees!

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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, fantastic!
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy smokes!!
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before going "Waynard" on us, Wayne does a terrific job of paying tribute to Pete Candoli's solo from the original movie.

The other trumpets are Tom Hooten, Jim Wilt, and Jeff Strong.

BTW - the gal who plays Maria - Rachel Zegler - is the absolute real deal. I did a The Little Mermaid with her as Ariel a few years ago and she absolutely blew me away with her voice, acting, and total comfort on stage.

And she was just a sophomore.

Talked with her & her parents a few times during the run. She's very humble and down-to-earth. Strong core values. And a really nice gal, too.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Spielberg West Side Story Reply with quote

TMT wrote:
Mambo from the new film is pretty mediocre...UNTIL Wayne Bergeron comes in on the solo with his trademark shake a la Maynard. Laugh out loud ballsy moment of pure fun!

https://youtu.be/MQfxJJKlb1c


Pretty mediocre?
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Spielberg West Side Story Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
TMT wrote:
Mambo from the new film is pretty mediocre...UNTIL Wayne Bergeron comes in on the solo with his trademark shake a la Maynard. Laugh out loud ballsy moment of pure fun!

https://youtu.be/MQfxJJKlb1c


Pretty mediocre?


Technically very well played, but I tend to agree. I didn't find it as musically exciting as the '61 film soundtrack or the '57 Broadway cast recording.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone interested, Uan told me the three on the 1961 movie were himself, Pete Condoli, and maybe Bob Fowler.

This was in a phone conversation with him not too long before he passed.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Spielberg West Side Story Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
TMT wrote:
Mambo from the new film is pretty mediocre...UNTIL Wayne Bergeron comes in on the solo with his trademark shake a la Maynard. Laugh out loud ballsy moment of pure fun!

https://youtu.be/MQfxJJKlb1c


Pretty mediocre?


Listen to it again. Timing is off. And really, the solo is not of the character of a classic show band. Sorry for bringing that up. I want a broad and brash trumpet there. Not a tight laser sound. So this updated version does not speak to me.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are issues with the new recording. Not so much the orchestra, but Dudamel. Bad balance and timing.
Here is the great Wilmer Wise leading the Mambo from Lenny's final recording.
(At one point, Bernstein told the engineers we have a genius first trumpet player back there).
Bernstein did not want Carrera as Tony. Wrong accent for the role and he had considerable trouble with the timing of the songs he sang.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deleted. Double post.

Last edited by Vin DiBona on Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TMT
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne currently defines lead trumpet playing, I'm glad he got a chance to record his take on this!
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dudamel takes the Mambo too fast. They have a tendency to play it too fast in Venezuela as well, so maybe he got accustomed to that tempo. The orchestras form El Sistema always play it way too fast in order to rile up the audience it seems. It is slower on the album. I guess I am used to Bernstein's tempos.
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tptptp
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Spielberg West Side Story Reply with quote

TMT wrote:
Wayne Bergeron comes in on the solo with his trademark shake a la Maynard.


Better than Maynard, to my ears.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankly, I don't call Maynard's notes "shake". I call them nanny goats . You should've heard him in his prime. As a matter of fact, I don't believe I ever heard him "shake" during those times.

Not to be misunderstood, I think Maynard has contributed immensely to jazz. He's a well-deserved legend. Ever stop to think how few full-time big bands exist? I am in awe of Maynard's staying power.

I don't know how many of our younger players know of Maynard's musicianship. I've heard him match solos with Clifford Bown and hold his own. But that was pre "shake" days.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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MrClean
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
Dudamel takes the Mambo too fast. They have a tendency to play it too fast in Venezuela as well, so maybe he got accustomed to that tempo. The orchestras form El Sistema always play it way too fast in order to rile up the audience it seems. It is slower on the album. I guess I am used to Bernstein's tempos.


Funny you should say that. Bernstein got into a *huge* fight with the folks that made the original movie over the tempo of the mambo, saying it was much too slow. They played it at that tempo to accommodate the overly complex choreography of Jerome Robbins. He vowed to never write for another movie after that. Listen to the tempo of the mambo in the overture to the original movie - it really cooks. 3:14 mark https://youtu.be/ow7vNQ_avy8

Having played on the new soundtrack, I agree, the original has more grit and sounds more “authentic”. The new one is very good, but it is a hyper clean, studio recording. Amazing players on that original recording
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TMT
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MrClean"][quote="Irving"]the original has more grit...the new one is very good, but it is a hyper clean[/quote].

Yes, my thoughts exactly, thank you for putting that into words!
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great to me - I'd be tickled to play it just like Wayne does.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
Bernstein did not want Carrera as Tony. Wrong accent for the role and he had considerable trouble with the timing of the songs he sang.

I've long been wondering how Carrera could be a Tony. But I figured hey, Bernstein's Bernstein. This explanation that B. didn't want him, though, I wonder what's your source? (And I mean that benignly, not accusatory.) Bernstein was super powerful and influential, and it was his music and his "band". Doesn't make sense to me.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrClean wrote:
Irving wrote:
Dudamel takes the Mambo too fast. They have a tendency to play it too fast in Venezuela as well, so maybe he got accustomed to that tempo. The orchestras form El Sistema always play it way too fast in order to rile up the audience it seems. It is slower on the album. I guess I am used to Bernstein's tempos.


Funny you should say that. Bernstein got into a *huge* fight with the folks that made the original movie over the tempo of the mambo, saying it was much too slow. They played it at that tempo to accommodate the overly complex choreography of Jerome Robbins. He vowed to never write for another movie after that. Listen to the tempo of the mambo in the overture to the original movie - it really cooks. 3:14 mark https://youtu.be/ow7vNQ_avy8

Having played on the new soundtrack, I agree, the original has more grit and sounds more “authentic”. The new one is very good, but it is a hyper clean, studio recording. Amazing players on that original recording

I've had to perform excerpts from Bernstein's Wonderful Town and I got the impression that he liked tricky figures played more quickly than is comfortable. I'm not surprised to hear that he wanted the Mombo in the film to be faster.
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