What parameters define a flugelhorn as a flugelhorn?

Robert P · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596

I've seen various configurations of flugelhorns, there are players who sound very flugel-like on trumpet and people whose sound on flugel isn't much different than a trumpet. Then there's things like a flumpet.

Are there specific measurements, parameters, ratios that define a particular horn as a flugel?
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ayryq · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:05 am Post subject:

A flugelhorn is essentially a valved bugle.

It's hard to pin down anything more definite than bell size (bigger than cornet) and mouthpiece shape (deeper than trumpet).

I think shorter pre-valve tubing is typical, like a rotary.

Edit: Note I didn't say anything about proportion of conical tubing. Someone else can have that argument.
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shofarguy · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:17 am Post subject:

I see flugelhorn as a piccolo tuba. I think it describes its architecture and sound pretty well.

I gather from looking at a variety of them that the designer starts with the bell flare and taper to establish the sound, then works backward through the horn to create a useable instrument. The best results have been when the tubing size diminishes to somewhere around 0.413" - 0.423". at the valve section.
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kehaulani · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:47 am Post subject:

I wonder how that definition includes German Flugelhorns. They are a different animal than the French Couesnon type Flugelhorn, but they're still Flugelhorns.
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Subtropical and Subpar · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:06 am Post subject:

stuartissimo · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:29 pm Post subject:

ayryq · Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject:

Fair point. I was just reading "Fanfares and Finesse" by Elisa Koehler, and she devotes a chapter to the development of the bugle (including keyed bugles, flugelhorns, posthorns, and Corno da Caccia). Here's a quote from the beginning of the following chapter, on the cornet:

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:24 pm Post subject:

The "classic" answer is that a trumpet is 2/3 cylindrical tubing and 1/3 conical (flared); a cornet is 1/3 cylindrical and 2/3 conical tubin; and, a flugelhorn is all conical tubing (continuously increasing in diameter). These days I think that's been blurred but the flugelhorns I've seen (including my own) all have a lot more conical tubing and big bell flare to help provide that "dark" sound.

FWIWM - Don
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popTbop · Regular Member Joined: 23 Aug 2019 Posts: 34

kehaulani · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:59 am Post subject:

Regarding the differences in sound, excluding physical construction, is the mental concept of what the sound should be (body following the mind and all that), and mouthpiece selection. Put a peashooter mpc on a Flugelhorn and you'll get a trumpety sound. Put a deep, conical mpc on a trumpet and you'll get a Flugelhornish sound.
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nieuwguyski · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:25 pm Post subject:

The taper of a flugelhorn bell is very different than a trumpet or cornet. Modern Bb trumpets and cornets use basically the same mutes. You may have to sand the corks down more for a "tight" trumpet bell, or build them up for the most open bells (ironically enough including the Wild Thing trumpet), but it's the same mute body.

A flugelhorn can generally use small tenor trombone mutes. It can be argued that mutes specifically designed for flugelhorns work better, but it can also be pointed out that there's pretty much no point in putting a mute in a flugelhorn in the first place and essentially no literature written for muted flugelhorn... which probably explains why there aren't very many designed-specifically-for-flugelhorn mutes out there.

My point is, if you can't seat a small trombone mute in the bell it isn't a flugelhorn. If you can, it isn't a trumpet or cornet.

And yes, there are extreme examples that fall in the middle. If neither a trumpet nor a trombone mute fits, it's in the middle and I don't have an opinion.
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