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trumpetera
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:20 am Post subject: Bach MtVernon stop rod direction? |
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Me and my collegue were comparing our MtVernon Bb’s the other night.
They are both from 1957, hers is around 1620x, and mine is 170xx.
My stop rod points in the direction of the player, while hers points forward like more modern incarnations of the Bach strad.
Was this common? This is the only MtVernon I’ve seen where the rod points forward..
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Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
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homebilly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:31 am Post subject: |
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points in the direction of the player
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Uberopa
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| My NY Strad 1941 stop rod points towards the bell.It is also quite short. I have seen both ways in the NY era. |
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cbtj51
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:18 am Post subject: |
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In keeping with the earlier iterations, the current editions of the NY7 also have a player pointing stop rod. It would appear that it is the only current model with that feature. Other than being very close to touching my finger wrap on the left hand sometimes, I am not aware of any difference. A longer stop rod would not work with the 2 up/2 down grip, at least not for me. The previous owner of my CL229 (in the middle of that period that the Bach C trumpets had no factory stop configurations) had a player pointing stop rod added. Curious!
Mike
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Dale Proctor
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I used to own a 1955 Mt. Vernon Strad, and the stop rod aimed toward the player. I currently own a mid-1980s Bach 239 C trumpet with no 3rd slide stop at all.
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interfx
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Mt. Vernon 3rd valve stop rods faced towards the player.
Hard to guess what happened in this example, could have been a mistake at the factory, or perhaps a repair where it was installed bell facing.
Bach catalogs of that era, show the 3rd player facing.
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J. Landress Brass
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Should be pointing towards the valve section on Mt. Vernon. The story I was told by an older gentleman that long passed who worked for Bach, was that Vincent was trying to get people away from the old way of holding trumpets (ala Besson with the underslung 3rd) from the bottom of the casing and moved the stop rod pointing towards the valve casing to force the hand to move.
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trumpetera
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies!
I took a closer look at it last night, and allthough the trumpet has some of the origina laquer left, it is gone where the rod assembly is attached. So probably either a mistake at a repair sometime- or moved by someone who wanted to be able to hold the instrument á la vintage Bessons…
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Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural |
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J.D. Heckathorn
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| J. Landress Brass wrote: | | Should be pointing towards the valve section on Mt. Vernon. The story I was told by an older gentleman that long passed who worked for Bach, was that Vincent was trying to get people away from the old way of holding trumpets (ala Besson with the underslung 3rd) from the bottom of the casing and moved the stop rod pointing towards the valve casing to force the hand to move. |
Interesting. I wonder then if that was similar logic for the reversed stop on my 1927/29 Conn 2B. I have yet to find any source to confirm the theory I’ve read that Bach’s first horns were closely designed from the 2B.
John
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J. Landress Brass
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Bach's earliest designs were taken from Besson. Before Vincent started making instruments (1919/1920) he had Besson make a small number of horns to his specifications. I have one which he called them "The Queen of all trumpets" it is similar to order Bessons of it's time with a few changes, mostly a top lung 3rd slide. Bach, Holton, Conn (2B included), Keefer and others all took their designs from Besson.
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_Daff
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| J. Landress Brass wrote: | | Should be pointing towards the valve section on Mt. Vernon. The story I was told by an older gentleman that long passed who worked for Bach, was that Vincent was trying to get people away from the old way of holding trumpets (ala Besson with the underslung 3rd) from the bottom of the casing and moved the stop rod pointing towards the valve casing to force the hand to move. |
My 1965 37 belled (all-original) Strad has the Mt. Vernon style rod facing the valves.
Post Mt. Vernon era rods not only differ in direction mounted, but the post mount features an Allen head screw (accessed from the underside) for replacing the threaded rod. Mine (likely a Mt. Vernon remnant) doesn't feature the screw and, to my knowledge, the Mt. Vernon’s do not. The Mt. Vernon mounting plates are also significantly smaller.
Call me crazy, but I have had numerous vintage Strads and swear that the rod direction affects the blow. You can experiment with this yourself by playing with both stop nuts, then just one, then with none. Positioning the nut(s) in different spots along the rod also impacts the blow/feel. Could it be that V. Bach flipped the position as a result of his experimentation with this subtle phenomenon? |
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