Valve guard

Sofus · Veteran Member Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 104

Hi everyone!

I have experienced that a valve guard
I had made the valve casing go black.
It did not protect the valve block, instead
it "attacked" it!

Can anyone recommend a valve guard that
won´t destroy silver plating?

Regards/Sofus
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AndyDavids · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jun 2020 Posts: 176

The black is just tarnish, it should polish away...if you keep the guard on there all the time this will happen.
Remove it every time you finish playing and wipe down horn, the silver will stay shiny.

zaferis · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:21 am Post subject:

Don't use a valve guard.. as you say they really only make things worse, unless you take them off frequently. But then what's the point.

How about just wiping off the trumpet, with a soft cloth, when you're done playing? Or holding one in your hand, like Satchmo?
Cotton glove on your left hand?

IMO there are much better solutions to the problem. Not to mention the feeling that a valve guard deadens the sound a bit.
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Bryant Jordan · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:54 am Post subject:

I use a valve guard on my C solely because all the sliver plate has worn off the valve casing, and it's now raw brass. It kind of has a gross feeling when I hold it, but thanks to the valve guard, I don't have to always feel that. For performances and auditions though, I never use valve guards. After discussing this with Wayne Tanabe of Yamaha, they do noticeably take away from the resonance of the instrument.

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I think that the idea that a valve guard noticeably deadens the sound and/or noticeably detracts from the resonance of the horn strains logic. It's a nice theory but what is the reality?

A valve guard weighs maybe an ounce and puts no significant pressure on the valve casings. That being the case, how would a valve guard in and of itself dampen the sound or resonance of a horn to any noticeable degree?

Compare that to your left hand, something that grips the valve casings and is attached to however much you weigh. If a valve guard dampens the sound and resonance of a horn by a factor of 1 then your left hand dampens the sound and resonance by a factor of at least 10,000.

So, maybe we should be holding our trumpet only with our right hand?
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zaferis · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:56 am Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

JVL · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:57 am Post subject:

hello
i'm maybe wrong, but i think that when experts like Wayne Tanabe express such an advice, it's for some reasons; they use to test various combinations to optimize horns, improve them from a model to the next one, change very little things that make differences... so it'd not be strange that he or his colleagues have made experiments on valve guards, to get a more scientific advice than one's feeling (and one's feeling matters).
Best

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

I've heard various little things affect the sound of horns over the past few years, so I'm not ready to dismiss the effect of anything, insignificant as it may seem. On my Olds, the addition of a lyre severely hampers the sound, to the point that the other trumpeters noticed it as well (on my Getzen the lyre has no effect at all). On the Getzen, the bottom valve caps were screwed on so tightly that loosening them improved the sound. On the Olds, no effect. There are people that reverse their 2nd valve slides or loosened/tightened the screw on their adjustable trigger ring...didn't do anything for my trumpets, but apparently it did for theirs. Not every small detail affects every horn, but I'll accept that some things prove true for some players/trumpets. So who knows, maybe the valve guard does something?

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:00 pm Post subject:

arthurtwoshedsjackson · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Aug 2020 Posts: 159

huntman10 · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject:

I have a large collection of horns and prefer hand guards, but I only use the ones with a felt backing of some sort that keeps the leather from the metal. They are thicker, but I have really big hands anyway. I have guards that I bought in the late 1960's still in use. I remove them periodically to clean underneath, but some have been in place for many years with no I'll effects.
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:19 pm Post subject:

Bryant Jordan · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject:

darksmoke · Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:27 pm Post subject:

Used one for awhile and never got any tarnish and the like- took it off on a whim one bath about a year ago and now I have many wear spots on the lacquer where my hands touch. They can certainly be a savior for some, but just make sure they're actually good ones that work and are not made thin nor a detriment to the horn's plating of course. Get a little thicker one, mine has a 'nonporous center layer' in between that you can feel and the inside touching the lacquer is velvet (apparently): the 6-Point Protec leather/ Velcro one. Inexpensive. Nothing ever got under there and it was not very tight. Couldn't tell any difference in sound. I find it simply looks a bit off and weird when no one else has anything like it so I keep it off now primarily just for that and simply wipe it down after every practice at home with a small microfiber cloth, sometimes my shirt. Probably slap it back on sooner or later one of these days.. it is quite more comfortable though

I agree that players, whether for some odd reason trumpets are more predisposed to that or not doesn't matter, and humans in general for that matter, are very subjective creatures and we often underestimate the ability of our brains and psychology to perceive many aspects in life. The Placebo Effect is very real. And it takes years of focus and observation to get better at seeing reason in things big or small. The Placebo Effect is a lifesaver. It means what you think will happen, will probably happen within reason. Your conscious is always shifting focus to different angles so don't focus on just one of them. There's a million different ways to look at the moon. It is always still the same old moon we've looked at for generations.

What I personally think:
If you believe it helps you- good- do that, it's good for you. Your plating will thank you if you picked out one that actually does its job. If you believe you cannot play with a valve guard as it ruins what you've been building on with your instrument- good- do that, it's good for you. You will not standout visually as much in some situations on the bandstand.
One cannot expect rapport with a new object that clashes with an unshakeable concept of their own brain. It will take time to lose that feeling and to see what may be the actual. If you think something does something, do that and don't spontaneously switch it up as what you think is what will be more likely to happen in circumstance. If you find it doesn't help, it probably won't help you. If you find it has no effect to you, it doesn't really matter in the end. Just play.
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Sofus · Veteran Member Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 104

Thank you all for your very qualified answers!

It will be either the right guard, no guard or a cloth, then.

I´m an engineer, and as such I´m sceptical to theories
about sound improving and gadgets until there is some
actual measurements done to confirm them.

Nevertheless; if you notice that it helps, then it just might
be helping you, no matter what the reason is . . .

Thanks again!
_________________
" There are no secrets to trumpetplaying - except Practice Your Head Off - and that´s no secret! "

Bud Herseth 1977 in Hamar, Norway

*********************
Mouthpiece and Solidarity

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

AndyDavids · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Jun 2020 Posts: 176

James Becker · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:38 am Post subject:

I’m not a scientist or engineer, but can attest to hearing a difference when playing a trumpet with vs without a hand guard. Similarly, O-rings and non- cork water key seals also dampen an instrument. I believe it all comes down to personal preference, it’s neither good or bad, just different.
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trpt2 · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:05 pm Post subject: Valve guard

Kind of a different situation, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth...
Over the the years, I've worked with Wayne, Jim Becker, etc. I definitely agree, the valve guard dampens something in the instrument. You can analyze it scientifically any way you want, but it it is something the best, most sensitive players can "feel". I believe this what the best artists can sense.
I've never used one in my career, yet in my last couple of years in the orchestra, I developed some kind of metallic allergy, in that my left hand would break out with cracks, and quite painful. (At one point I had to have my wedding ring cut off, as the swelling was so bad it was cutting off circulation to my finger.)
Went through the allergy tests, and nothing conclusive..was told they can't test for everything. I started to use a hand guard, and it helped the outbreaks a bit. Can I say it affected the sound in doing my job,.... No ..
We can all feel incredibly small changes in our equipment, notice resistance changes, resonance differences, etc.....
BUT... I will step out on a limb here, and say, 1) Never , ever, has a colleague said, hey your sound is different with that guard, take it off..
And 2) I can GUARANTEE that any conductor could Ever tell the difference!
It really comes down to your comfort level with or without it.
10 feet away, maybe... but 50 feet into the hall, I'm not so sure.
Flame away if you like, as I said, just my 2 cents. 😉