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Olds for lead?


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taylordiving
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good question. While my own experience is somewhat limited compared to many of the TH members who regularly post on such topics I'll add my $0.02 anyway.

I recently went on a safari to locate a pre-war Olds Super as my research showed that from about '46 on they became gradually heavier over time. The '42 I ended up with fit the bill exactly as it seems to only want to play above the stave (and sounds pretty good doing it). I've had 2 Olds Specials, an LA Recording and an early Fullerton Mendez and none of them performed as well in a lead situation as this pre-war/wartime Super.
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
IMO, the best Olds for big band lead style playing would be a Super.


Yes. I think that's what they were made for. I've got a '54 Super. Great for big band.
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tstangel
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play an 47 olds super and it is by far my favorite horn for lead style playing, took a few to get used to though.
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JWG
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet.

This makes sense, because John Williams cut his teeth and apprenticed under the Sherman brothers who wrote and recorded so many classic Disney soundtracks right here in So.Cal. where everyone played Bb horns.

Thus, I suspect that Williams wrote the StarWars trumpet parts for Bb trumpets and that the trumpet section of the LSO took out their Bb's rather than transpose from Bb to C.

In any event, the LSO trumpet section's execution of the fanfares in StarWars proves that Olds Bb horns can sound great leading an orchestra.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2022 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWG wrote:
I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet.

If I recall correctly, it was supposedly played by Maurice Murphy on an Olds Recording.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:
JWG wrote:
I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet.

If I recall correctly, it was supposedly played by Maurice Murphy on an Olds Recording.


I have been told the same thing!
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWG wrote:

Thus, I suspect that Williams wrote the StarWars trumpet parts for Bb trumpets and that the trumpet section of the LSO took out their Bb's rather than transpose from Bb to C.


It's much more common for British orchestras to play Bb's - a small few orchestras here would use C's, but in general Bb is default. In fact I have heard of players getting friendly abuse for even having a C in their case

SW will have been recorded on Bb's. My bet is that JW wrote for Bb tpts as he knew a British orchestra was recording the soundtrack.

It's a masterpiece of composition and playing - I love the fact that it was Maurice Murphy's first job as principal trumpet with the LSO - an absolutely stellar performance. Truly one of the greatest trumpet players of all time - what an astonishing sound, time feel, presence. The whole brass section is on fire!


Link


I love this video of MM working on the Haydn tpt concerto - he has some fabulous solo recordings out (though not many).


Link

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dstpt
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!

I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...

"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."

http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm

Insights anyone?
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
bach_again wrote:
I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!

I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...

"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."

http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm

Insights anyone?


I haven't - but I will, my Super arrives Thurs, so I'll measure both then and report back! I assumed 460, with a small venturi on the Studio, but will find out!

Cheers!
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/2/23/Mauricemurphy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160725041256

A New Hope, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Superman: The Movie, were all likely done while Murphy used an Olds Recording. And given the nature of this thread, I’d say that those scores in particular lend themselves more to a “lead trumpet” sound.

I think the suggestions for the Super are on point; it’s probably brighter than the Recording. I can’t comment on the blow though.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a '66 Olds Recording from another THer today...should get it in the next couple of days...thinking of using it on the Tpt 2 part to the Brahms Requiem this Fri/Sat in a freelance orch with large community chorus. We'll see how it goes. I may take my '41 Olds Super along in case some of the soft/exposed low G's (in octaves with Tpt 1) respond a little easier after fighting COVID the past two weeks. I finally started getting resonance back in my sound yesterday, so feelin' pretty good about all of this. Really looking fwd to playing an Olds Recording for the first time! The '41 Super is a great player...lucked out on it from a collector 15 months ago...only some lacquer loss, but great valve compression, uber-fast & smooth valves, and slippery slides! I understand the Supers from the mid-50s have some diff's from the early '40s.

A.N.A. Mendez has thankfully "pasted" the same post in many Olds threads on TH through the years with tons of illumination regarding the Olds tpts...

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1237957

I like the last part, especially:

Super - Workhorse
Recording - Showhorse
Super Recording - Unicorn
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Bill Ortiz
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had good success using an Olds Super for lead in the past-they play pretty efficiently and have some good brightness while still giving you a nice full core sound. Good slotting and pitch as well. In regards to how they play vs. the Recording, I find the Super is a little more efficient and a bit brighter in my experience. Both are wonderful horns.
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a (well-used when I got it) late '50s Recording for all my playing for years, including quite a bit of lead. I was completely happy with it until the valves, which were high-mileage when I started playing it, got too worn.

My particular Recording showed signs of major bell repair. From the burned edges in the lacquer surrounding an area where the bell engraving had been buffed faint, it appeared that the bell had taken significant damage between the valves and the bell-rim on the "outer" (left, from the player's perspective) side and that the repaired area had to be annealed at least once during the repair.

I bought it as a player, not a looker, and the purchase price reflected the cosmetic "challenges." I will acknowledge that between the obvious thinning of the metal where it was buffed and the potential for work-hardening in the repaired area, my Recording may not demonstrate typical performance.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nieuwguyski wrote:
I played a (well-used when I got it) late '50s Recording for all my playing for years, including quite a bit of lead. I was completely happy with it until the valves, which were high-mileage when I started playing it, got too worn.

Can relate. Currently in the process of replacing the valves on my Recording (thankfully Centexbrass was willing to sell me a spare set!), which I also use for pretty much everything. What I really like about the Olds Recording (well, mine at least) is that it's very much a chameleon. It can be dark and smokey, which is my preferred sound anyway, but (especially when combined with a proper mouthpiece) piercingly bright latin/salsa is very much an option too. It is a later model though, with the nickel silver leadpipe, which presumably brightens the sound a bit...don't know if the same goes for the earlier Recording models as well. I certainly understand why mr. Murphy chose to play it though.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
bach_again wrote:
I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!

I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...

"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."

http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm

Insights anyone?


So my 1946 Super arrived and I am in love!!

Regading bore - both horns measure identically. NB that measuring bores with the upper jaws is inaccurate, and not the ideal method - even on good Mitutoyos, so with that in consideration I was getting measurements of 11.65-11.69mm (0.4587" - 0.4602") which in all likelihood means a LM bore. I think it is possible for upper jaws on cheap calipers to misread by the amount you have mentioned as I have seen some with quite broad surfaces, which would reduce the measurement made. I'm not assuming this is the case for you, but it could be.

Very excited to be playing this horn, it's the first time I have bought a horn which has met my expectations!! And regarding the theme of this thread; this will be a great lead horn. Very fast response, easy blow, huge sound, and super even to double D. No weirdness around A/Ab - well, unlike my Studio! A more compact blow than the studio.

I will report back once I put some miles on this horn!

Best,
Mike
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again wrote:
So my 1946 Super arrived and I am in love!!

Nice! I hope you'll get tons of fun out of it .
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gypsyblues
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 11:50 am    Post subject: Olds for lead Reply with quote

I recently picked up a '39 Super medium bore (.453) from my childhood jazz mentor and its the real deal. It sings above the staff, and has a presence I haven't heard in other horns. I've played a '63 Special tri-tone for years before this, and the Super is lighter, brighter and everything a lead player would want. This pre-war Super is my personal unicorn-horn, absolutely amazing to play.
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JHirakawa
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Custom Crafted 37117 is designed to be a lightweight Mendez.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Wood sounding a million bucks on his Super!! Whole band sounding incredible, really swinging.


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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark is an amazing player. What was that very last high note ? He sure made it look easy. I wonder what kind of mouthpiece he was playing.
I loved the arrangement, too.
George
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