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taylordiving Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2013 Posts: 66
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Very good question. While my own experience is somewhat limited compared to many of the TH members who regularly post on such topics I'll add my $0.02 anyway.
I recently went on a safari to locate a pre-war Olds Super as my research showed that from about '46 on they became gradually heavier over time. The '42 I ended up with fit the bill exactly as it seems to only want to play above the stave (and sounds pretty good doing it). I've had 2 Olds Specials, an LA Recording and an early Fullerton Mendez and none of them performed as well in a lead situation as this pre-war/wartime Super. _________________ Calicchio 1s7
Yamaha 8310Z
Reynolds Leonard Smith Contempora
1941 & 1942 Olds Supers
Getzen Eterna Cornet
Yamaha 8315G Flugel
Last edited by taylordiving on Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:50 am Post subject: |
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patdublc wrote: | IMO, the best Olds for big band lead style playing would be a Super. |
Yes. I think that's what they were made for. I've got a '54 Super. Great for big band. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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tstangel Regular Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2020 Posts: 12
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I play an 47 olds super and it is by far my favorite horn for lead style playing, took a few to get used to though. _________________ 1948 Olds Super
1940 Conn 48A vocabell
1968 Bach Strad 43
1930 Martin troubadour |
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JWG Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 258
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet.
This makes sense, because John Williams cut his teeth and apprenticed under the Sherman brothers who wrote and recorded so many classic Disney soundtracks right here in So.Cal. where everyone played Bb horns.
Thus, I suspect that Williams wrote the StarWars trumpet parts for Bb trumpets and that the trumpet section of the LSO took out their Bb's rather than transpose from Bb to C.
In any event, the LSO trumpet section's execution of the fanfares in StarWars proves that Olds Bb horns can sound great leading an orchestra. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 980 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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JWG wrote: | I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet. |
If I recall correctly, it was supposedly played by Maurice Murphy on an Olds Recording. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 1:38 am Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | JWG wrote: | I recall someone here writing that the original recording of the StarWars soundtrack by the LSO got recorded with the principal trumpet playing a Bb Olds, rather than any type of C trumpet. |
If I recall correctly, it was supposedly played by Maurice Murphy on an Olds Recording. |
I have been told the same thing! _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 9:46 am Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!
I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link |
Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...
"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm
Insights anyone? |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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dstpt wrote: | bach_again wrote: | I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!
I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link |
Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...
"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm
Insights anyone? |
I haven't - but I will, my Super arrives Thurs, so I'll measure both then and report back! I assumed 460, with a small venturi on the Studio, but will find out!
Cheers! _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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kramergfy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/2/23/Mauricemurphy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160725041256
A New Hope, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and Superman: The Movie, were all likely done while Murphy used an Olds Recording. And given the nature of this thread, I’d say that those scores in particular lend themselves more to a “lead trumpet” sound.
I think the suggestions for the Super are on point; it’s probably brighter than the Recording. I can’t comment on the blow though. _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Thread killer. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2022 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I just bought a '66 Olds Recording from another THer today...should get it in the next couple of days...thinking of using it on the Tpt 2 part to the Brahms Requiem this Fri/Sat in a freelance orch with large community chorus. We'll see how it goes. I may take my '41 Olds Super along in case some of the soft/exposed low G's (in octaves with Tpt 1) respond a little easier after fighting COVID the past two weeks. I finally started getting resonance back in my sound yesterday, so feelin' pretty good about all of this. Really looking fwd to playing an Olds Recording for the first time! The '41 Super is a great player...lucked out on it from a collector 15 months ago...only some lacquer loss, but great valve compression, uber-fast & smooth valves, and slippery slides! I understand the Supers from the mid-50s have some diff's from the early '40s.
A.N.A. Mendez has thankfully "pasted" the same post in many Olds threads on TH through the years with tons of illumination regarding the Olds tpts...
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1237957
I like the last part, especially:
Super - Workhorse
Recording - Showhorse
Super Recording - Unicorn |
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 12:59 am Post subject: |
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I had good success using an Olds Super for lead in the past-they play pretty efficiently and have some good brightness while still giving you a nice full core sound. Good slotting and pitch as well. In regards to how they play vs. the Recording, I find the Super is a little more efficient and a bit brighter in my experience. Both are wonderful horns. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I played a (well-used when I got it) late '50s Recording for all my playing for years, including quite a bit of lead. I was completely happy with it until the valves, which were high-mileage when I started playing it, got too worn.
My particular Recording showed signs of major bell repair. From the burned edges in the lacquer surrounding an area where the bell engraving had been buffed faint, it appeared that the bell had taken significant damage between the valves and the bell-rim on the "outer" (left, from the player's perspective) side and that the repaired area had to be annealed at least once during the repair.
I bought it as a player, not a looker, and the purchase price reflected the cosmetic "challenges." I will acknowledge that between the obvious thinning of the metal where it was buffed and the potential for work-hardening in the repaired area, my Recording may not demonstrate typical performance. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 980 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | I played a (well-used when I got it) late '50s Recording for all my playing for years, including quite a bit of lead. I was completely happy with it until the valves, which were high-mileage when I started playing it, got too worn. |
Can relate. Currently in the process of replacing the valves on my Recording (thankfully Centexbrass was willing to sell me a spare set!), which I also use for pretty much everything. What I really like about the Olds Recording (well, mine at least) is that it's very much a chameleon. It can be dark and smokey, which is my preferred sound anyway, but (especially when combined with a proper mouthpiece) piercingly bright latin/salsa is very much an option too. It is a later model though, with the nickel silver leadpipe, which presumably brightens the sound a bit...don't know if the same goes for the earlier Recording models as well. I certainly understand why mr. Murphy chose to play it though. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:43 am Post subject: |
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dstpt wrote: | bach_again wrote: | I have a 46 Super in the post which I expect will be amazing for this, but my main horn is a 62 Studio from Trent Austin/Austin Custom Brass and it can get nice and bright!!
I tracked all parts of this on it, and used 4 different Vennture mouthpieces (which helps make it sound like a real "section").
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSe_xuvDvch/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link |
Michael, have you measured the bore on your '46 Super and '62 Studio? Just curious if they are .460" or different. I have a '41 Super that is consistently measuring .456"...not sure how common this was. I see in the 1939 Olds Catalog...
"BORES
Olds cornets, trumpets and trombones, with
the exception of the bass trombone, are
built in four bores: medium (M); large
medium (LM); large, large medium (LLM)
and large (SYM, or symphony)."
http://rouses.net/trumpet/olds39/olds39_15.htm
Insights anyone? |
So my 1946 Super arrived and I am in love!!
Regading bore - both horns measure identically. NB that measuring bores with the upper jaws is inaccurate, and not the ideal method - even on good Mitutoyos, so with that in consideration I was getting measurements of 11.65-11.69mm (0.4587" - 0.4602") which in all likelihood means a LM bore. I think it is possible for upper jaws on cheap calipers to misread by the amount you have mentioned as I have seen some with quite broad surfaces, which would reduce the measurement made. I'm not assuming this is the case for you, but it could be.
Very excited to be playing this horn, it's the first time I have bought a horn which has met my expectations!! And regarding the theme of this thread; this will be a great lead horn. Very fast response, easy blow, huge sound, and super even to double D. No weirdness around A/Ab - well, unlike my Studio! A more compact blow than the studio.
I will report back once I put some miles on this horn!
Best,
Mike _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 980 Location: Europe
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | So my 1946 Super arrived and I am in love!! |
Nice! I hope you'll get tons of fun out of it . _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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gypsyblues Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2022 Posts: 15 Location: Philly
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: Olds for lead |
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I recently picked up a '39 Super medium bore (.453) from my childhood jazz mentor and its the real deal. It sings above the staff, and has a presence I haven't heard in other horns. I've played a '63 Special tri-tone for years before this, and the Super is lighter, brighter and everything a lead player would want. This pre-war Super is my personal unicorn-horn, absolutely amazing to play. |
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JHirakawa Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2022 Posts: 155
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Old Custom Crafted 37117 is designed to be a lightweight Mendez. _________________ Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Mark is an amazing player. What was that very last high note ? He sure made it look easy. I wonder what kind of mouthpiece he was playing.
I loved the arrangement, too.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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