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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: Burbank Benge, seller doesn't know value |
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If some of youse could put in a few words here about the potential value of this horn, I'll point the seller to this thread. I can't really educate him/her.
LINK _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1919 Location: WI
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 am Post subject: |
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It looks like the seller has added verbiage regarding information from a knowledgeable eBayer that the horn is worth more than $1k, etc.
With over 5 days left on the auction and a starting bid of $450, I'm sure other "knowledgeable eBayers" will have time to bid the price up. Plus, based on other comments in the description (about heavy use by the owner), the horn could be in desperate need of a valve rebuild, and those aren't cheap ever since Anderson's lone expert valve fitter retired. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:45 am Post subject: |
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I think $450 is an accurate opening bid considering the condition...looks like it
needs a LOT of work! As with any horn, it's worth what someone is willing to
pay for it. Not listed on Joe Lill's site, but the one before it is a 3x+
I just sold one of my Burbanks with a lower serial # for $1500...but it was in
Pristine condition. If this is also an MLP it could raise the value for some a bit.
Also, there is no picture of the valves which makes a difference, but personally
I wouldn't offer more than 600 without the case. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Why not just let it be? I'd bet that the opening bid was done at $450 on purpose just to get people bidding with the idea they might get a horn for a steal. That's not going to happen - people stay on the lookout for vintage trumpets of certain brands, so I can tell you that there are a bunch of folks looking pretty hard at this horn.
I'm confident this horn will sell for what it's worth. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 722 Location: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:38 am Post subject: Fair Market Value |
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trickg wrote: |
I'm confident this horn will sell for what it's worth. |
When are willing buyer and willing seller, each having reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts, and both are acting in their own best interest, agree on a price, that is fair market value. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I doubt that the seller or the owner really want any additional info about the 'value' of it.
I can't tell from the listing - is there a 'reserve' selling price?
And I see that nobody has made the opening bid of $450 .
The mention of
"Please note No. 1 valve has shinier gold metal showing and is not smooth when touched"
is an indicator that major valve servicing is likely needed.
Especially since it's being sold 'as-is' and with no claims about the functioning of the valves. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: |
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That's not a reference to the valve itself, it's a reference to the valve case, as shown in this pic.
On a side note, Serial No. 4239 (that's what I'm seeing anyway) indicates it was made sometime around 1960ish - it would seem that serial numbers and years of manufacture aren't always sequential according to this website.
https://everythingtrumpet.com/gearhead/Bengedata.html
_________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Tom LeCompte Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 3341 Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:36 am Post subject: |
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First, starting bid is fairly irrelevant.
Second, this horn might be worth less than $450. What if the valves had all corroded and the slides are stuck and corroded and the pipe has lots of red rot and and and... |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Tom LeCompte wrote: | First, starting bid is fairly irrelevant.
Second, this horn might be worth less than $450. What if the valves had all corroded and the slides are stuck and corroded and the pipe has lots of red rot and and and... |
I guess it just depends on what the buyer would want. I've seen some amazing restorations done on horns in worse shape than that, and with it being a late 50s/early 60s Burbank Benge, it might be worth the money to have it restored.
Valves in bad shape can be rebuilt, replated, etc. Can't do much about red rot but I don't see any red rot that's overtly obvious.
I think one thing is pretty clear though - as is, it definitely needs some work, so whoever buys it is going to have to throw at least a little more money at it. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7011 Location: AZ
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:22 am Post subject: |
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With the double-male 1st valve slide, it would seem to be a '50s vintage horn. While Elden may have offered his horns with either the under-over or double-male configuration for the last few years of his life, I kinda doubt that the old design was continued after his death. I could be wrong, though.
I wish the seller would have included a picture of the other side of the valve cluster. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 984
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Whoever buys it will need to spend a lot of money to refurbish it.
If the concern here is that it will sell too low to a non trumpet person
then just bid on it your self and save that “bleak future” knowing that a Burbank went into someone’s hands for $450 to be used as an artistic ceiling light.
🤷♂️ |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:42 am Post subject: |
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I checked the sellers other offerings. For those they did an excellent job with high quality photos. With the Benge they ended up with what looks like an "oil painting" or "pastel" effect - low definition.
Best advice - if they want more money - take better pictures - including the valves. |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Will the bell size be on the mp receiver? _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: |
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JetJaguar wrote: | Will the bell size be on the mp receiver? | No, early Burbanks did not have a number designation anywhere. Most of them used the 3 bell.
If there is a number 3 it would be on the ferrule from bell tail going into the 1st valve. |
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JetJaguar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Posts: 1518 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Bengeguy! _________________ 1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
www.jazzscales.org
The Coady Strengthening Exercises: http://coady.coolwarm.com |
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Aaronis Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 87 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Currently 21 watchers with 5 days to go. It's an auction. The price is going to go up quite a bit I suspect. Starting an auction too high of price only discourages bidding.
If this was a "buy it now" sale, then it would be sold at that price I believe. It's not that type of sale however.
Also, as noted by another user, the winner will have multiple areas to put additional money into this horn to refurbish if they choose to do so. _________________ 2018 Schilke B6
1980's CG Selmer
1976 CG L.A. Benge
1955 Mt. Vernon Bach
1947 Olds Super
Holton Revelation Model 48
1964 Holton Galaxy Cornet |
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so what Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2004 Posts: 617 Location: near Dallas
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Some watchers just want to see what happens. (Me, for example) |
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Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:09 am Post subject: |
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JetJaguar wrote: | Thanks, Bengeguy! | Hahaha...yes, there was a time when all of my equipment was Yamaha-
but honestly I have more Benges at this point than any other, so I may
just have to change my name. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 984
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