mouthpiece buzzing

[shoreman]

mouthpiece buzzing! Some for and some against. I'm interested in some of your opinions.

[Jerry Freedman]

like pedals or free buzzing this is a topic that has forever resulted in controversy on TrumpetHerald and other forums.

There are many versions of mouthpiece buzzing. There is the few second warmups, or full etude buzzing, sirens etc. I have seen all such described, recommended and disparaged here. For me the bottom line is that mouthpiece buzzing can work wonders for some players, do nothing for some player and be detrimental for some players.

There was player here whose name I forgot and who I think passed on. He was a top tier player who described how miraculously effective mouthpiece buzz was, at first but later decided it was not only useless but bad for him.

Personally I take a pragmatic view. Try it . If it works use it, if it doesn't don't use it

[Steve A]

I don't think there's a good answer to this. There are lots of highly accomplished players who say it's extremely useful, and there are also lots who say it's bad for you, so obviously individual experiences vary pretty widely.

Trying to present both sides of the argument - personally I find that it's a useful exercise for ensuring that you're actually playing precisely the pitch you intend to, rather than close enough for the trumpet to compensate. I also find that playing moving figures slowly, and with gentle glissandi between notes helps to ensure I'm keeping a consistent connection. Finally, I think mouthpiece playing is a great way to try to lock in accuracy for first entrances after sitting and getting cold.

But, the flip side of that is that actual trumpet playing is, at least from a physics standpoint, almost entirely about getting in phase with the reflected standing wave of the instrument, and the mouthpiece completely lacks that, so mouthpiece practice is practicing something similar enough to be confusing, but without the single most important part of good trumpet playing.

Speaking for myself, I don't find it's difficult to make an adjustment for this, at least not at this point in time, but people who say it's bad have good reasons to back up their opinion.

Ultimately, IMO, you're just going to have to decide for yourself.

[shofarguy]

I think it was Pops McLaughlin who wrote that the purpose of mouthpiece buzzing is to establish that the center of the embouchure is aligned with the mouthpiece and carry that to the whole horn. It is an acoustic alignment, not a geometric one, per se.

Since I've been a member of a local community concert band, I have been working to increase my accuracy and adjust my tone concept so as to blend with the established sound of this ensemble. I have used a bit of free buzzing, followed by a bit of mouthpiece buzzing to prepare me for a warmup with the whole horn.

At this juncture, I am working with octave intervals starting with G in the staff down to the G below using the same fingering. So, I am developing accuracy, without tension or pressure, by increasing the resonance of these "ghost notes." The free buzzing (there is a specific way of doing this that loosens the lip tissues and established the "corner" muscle set) and mouthpiece buzzing (where I find the proper position on the lips and correct angle to focus the resonance of the pitches I'm playing) prepare the embouchure to find this resonance.

It's important to play the ghost notes in an accurate and steady way, just like the upper octave "real" notes. The goal is to find one embouchure set that works for both ends of the interval. If I do that, then that same ease and accuracy transfers into the next octave of normal range in the staff.

I don't spend any extra time doing these exercises than it takes to find the embouchure set, as it can produce a ratty polyphonic mess if I do too much. Just enough to prepare for the more technical warmup and practice. It seems to be helping.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[kehaulani]

For me. this was a personal turn of events on this because it surprised me.

I was never a good buzzer. Feeling that I was missing something, I got, and worked out of, James Thompson's Buzzing Book. No real added value for me. Enter "Leadpipe buzzing".

This has two benefits:
*finding the pure center of your tone and
* being constantly aware of how that tone is being produced.

I am not an analytically/scientifically oriented kind f guy but a little delving into scientific tone production can dispel many myths about buzzing.

Good luck info hunting.
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[oxleyk]

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=site%3Atrumpetherald.com+~mouthpiece+buzzing&atb=v223-1&ia=web

[Robert P]

Spend your time getting the best sound you can buzzing into a mouthpiece that's inserted into a completely assembled horn.
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[abontrumpet]

If we can be of the mindset that mouthpiece alone and mouthpiece/trumpet combo are two different instruments, then we can make a good tool out of the mouthpiece.

It is when we try and conflate mouthpiece and mpctrumpet that we run into issues.

Additionally, too many people play the mouthpiece very poorly. Since it is it's own instrument, it is best to learn from somebody who is good at mouthpiece. Otherwise you are just playing an instrument poorly in your spare time.

[Billy B]

I have my students play the mouthpiece to help correct specific problems.
_________________
Bill Bergren

[Big C]

Kehaulani, or anybody that advocates leadpipe buzzing, what do you actually do, in addition to playing and holding the most 'natural" note that comes out? And when? Every day, as part of the warmup?

[irith]

I'd say mouthpiece buzzing is like most things with the trumpet - it's all in how you approach it. Certainly you can overdo it, or do it mindlessly, creating excess tension and otherwise do screwy things to your playing. This is pretty easy to do if you're not careful, so I understand the hesitancy of many to recommend it, especially with younger/newer players who may not be ready to appreciate the important nuances. For some people it may never be a good fit, and that's OK. There are way more techniques and exercises available than anyone can pursue all of the time; we all have to figure out what gives us the most benefit for the time we invest.

But I do think that in the proper dosage with clear objectives/guidelines, you can gain accuracy and use it as a microscope to iron out some production/coordination deficiencies.
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[Jeff_Purtle]

Against and here's why:
1. It's not the same as playing the trumpet.
2. It never can be the same as playing the trumpet.
3. No device like the BERP can make it like the trumpet because it's more than resistance.

The trumpet (or any brass instrument) is a tube that resonates at specific frequencies or harmonics or overtones determined by the length of the tubing. When we practice flexibility studies like Colin, Irons, Walter Smith, and others we are experiencing the feedback of the trumpet with the resonance at those frequencies. If we take the mouthpiece off to buzz, or a lead pipe, or something like the BERP we have changed the overall length and the corresponding frequencies.

There are obviously some amazing players that buzz and advocate for that. To use the argument that "person x buzzes and plays great so it must good" is to miss the point. I believe great players that buzz play great because they practice on the trumpet differently and much more than others. As an example, I know of a couple teachers that assign up to an hour of buzzing for their students but the percentage of buzzing vs time on the trumpet is way different for the student compared to the teacher. The teacher might buzz 5 minutes and practice 3 hours on their trumpet and play lots of gigs. The students might spend 30 minutes or more buzzing and then only an hour on the trumpet and play much less than the teacher. The teacher isn't practicing the way they assign to the student.

Too much buzzing usually does one of more of the following:
1. Approaching the trumpet too focused on the lips
2. Approaching pedal tones as if buzzing them
3. More tension than is necessary that hinders endurance, sound, range, and response.

Flexibility studies done correctly with the focus on feeling the coordination of tongue level and wind power and crescendoing when ascending will help undo issues mentioned above. Pedal tones done correctly, not too loud, and not pursing the lips out or trying to buzz them will also help get used to a different feel.

Claude Gordon only had students buzz for a short period of time when doing an embouchure change or starting as a complete beginner. His purpose was just to establish a free vibration and never to play scales or exercises on the mouthpiece. After a day or two the student would then never buzz the mouthpiece again.

As trumpet players we are WAY too focused on the lips and that's why Claude Gordon often said, "Forget about your lip!" when a student came in worried about their lip or dwelling on it too much. However, even after 10 years studying with Claude I caught myself doing that several years ago when showing my daughter at 20 months how to make a sound on all the brass instruments. I NEVER had her buzz for one second and just told her to put it on her mouth and lick her lips and blow and it worked so easily. Then, one day I was trying to get her to show off and it didn't work immediately so told her to make a buzz sound with her lips. My wife at the time (who is an excellent oboe and woodwind teacher) said, "What is wrong with you?! You never teach that!" I have no idea why that came out of my mouth. I immediately told my daughter to just put it on her mouth and blow and didn't make it complicated at all and it worked like normal again.

Again, I am NOT saying people that buzz are bad players. I am saying it's not vital like they believe it is. There are some very respected players and teachers that also disagree with buzzing but won't speak out against it because they know it might get them in political hot water with others.

I wrote the Preface for a book a student (David Bertie) wrote called Trumpet Harmonics and I posted that Preface on my site. It's very relevant to this topic and makes the point of why to practice systematically and practice flexibility studies as part of a practice routine.

https://www.purtle.com/what-is-systematic-practice

One of my favorite analogies about buzzing came from David Bertie when he said, "You wouldn't hand a steering wheel to someone learning to drive a car and tell them to practice driving with that."

I hope some of what I just said provokes more discussion even if people disagree with me.

Jeff
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[JWG]

Dear Jeff,

While you make three accurate statements to justify your position against mouthpiece buzzing, those three accurate statements do not support the conclusion that mouthpiece buzzing detriments your playing.

Yes, free buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing, lead pipe or Sandovalves buzzing all differ from playing the trumpet. The difference you posit appears unequivocal.

However, we cannot conclude from your statements that buzzing without the elaborate resonator of the trumpet detriments trumpet playing, because different does not mean detrimental.

I find all types of buzzing beneficial to my playing, because buzzing both improves my stamina and improves my intonation.

With regard to stamina, buzzing improves stamina, because it takes far more strength to buzz than to play. Buzzing strengthens the face muscles that form the foundation of my embouchure. No one argues that exercising muscles detriments athletes; yet, people argue that exercising one's face muscles detriments trumpet playing. That makes no sense. Bench presses, pull-ups, etc., differ from playing most sports; yet, almost all athletes engage in weight training. Buzzing for trumpet players analogizes to weight training for athletes.

With regard to intonation, for me, buzzing analogizes to a form of singing that assists in pitch matching. You can experiment for yourself: Play a random note on the trumpet and observe your tuner; then, buzz that same pitch, then play that note again and observe your tuner as you easily center the pitch. Finally, buzz one step higher, then apply the trumpet to your lips to resonate the prior pitch and observe your tuner go out of tune. Buzzing appears to improve one's lips' ability to vibrate sympathetically at the exact frequency of the standing wave. This improves intonation and tone quality.

While I also acknowledge that buzzing differs significantly from trumpet playing itself, I find that buzzing benefits rather than detriments my playing just as weight lifting improves rather than detriments my athleticism.
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[Tpt_Guy]

Hi Jeff. Some thoughts.

[abontrumpet]

[stuartissimo]

[abontrumpet]

[shofarguy]

This has been a fascinating thread, so far. I hope it remains as informative and respectful as it started. It's good to see some well known player/teachers participating, as well. TH has lost many of the professional players that were here when I started.

I am not a professional trumpet player and never have been. I don't have money to spend on lessons, but I have purchased certain books that have helped and I have made friends with players that are better and more accomplished players than I. I have read, listened and experimented. I realize that I will only get so far without concentrated instruction and practice and perhaps I will need to invest in that some day, but for now I need a few improvements to fulfill my place in Community Concert Band.

I relate to one phrase that Jeff wrote, in that I found my embouchure and tone were too focussed for this ensemble. Lip buzzing may have contributed to that, but lip buzzing also led me to a solution.

I remember some photographs in a book by Pops McLaughlin showing the difference between an open aperture and a closed one. I began to free buzz differently, using a wider amount of lip. Mind you, I don't try to buzz a scale or melody, just a few notes in a small range that is generally relaxed. I use buzzing like a warmup stretch to get my breath going, to get a feel for my face and loosen the tissues of my lips. Now, I started using it to feel the wider, more open aperture.

I work to transfer this change to the mouthpiece phase of my warmup. I find it helps to use a mouthpiece with a deeper cup. I carefully position the rim on my lips to produce the best, most constant resonant sound using easy scales and intervals while adjusting the height and angle of the mouthpiece. It's like aligning the wheels of a car or focusing a camera lens. Once it's done, you're good to go.

I have found that using octave intervals to play the "ghost notes" between the normal range and pedal range - while being careful to maintain a consistent embouchure set between the two notes - immediately helped me improve initial attacks in the staff. So, I have been using that technique as the final phase of my warmup.

I don't think I will always need or even benefit from some of these things long term, but they are helping now to overcome some longstanding problems. Maybe, I will "put them in the drawer" to bring out later, as needed.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Steve A]

[Robert P]