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Higher end Carol Brass options?


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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 1:54 pm    Post subject: Higher end Carol Brass options? Reply with quote

I thought I had decided on the Adams A2, but while waiting for a second one to try (the first had questionable valves) someone that handles them often on the used market said they seem to be getting redrot more quickly than they felt is normal. For a horn that would cost me $3k, I don't want to deal with that after 4-5 years or less. I'm looking at Sterling Silver leadpipes or extra thick leadpipes now.

I also decided I just can't justify that much on a horn for what playing I do. I have four kids, and the oldest turns 16 next month. She works already and I plan to help buy her a car, so I need to pull back. I'm looking for something in the $1500 range.

Right now, I'm looking at a Carol Brass 6580H and a 7660L. ACB has a 6580H, but they won't' offer it on trial so it will be an as-is purchase. I found one on eBay open box by a seller referenced here with good reviews for cheaper. When I inquired, they gave it good reviews but they feel the 7660L is a better horn overall.

Does anybody here have any opinion on these two, or do you know of an even better option? I'm leaning towards Carol brass because they seem to get rave reviews on almost any model, and they are far cheaper for what you can get. I love the Manchester Brass my daughter has that is made by Carol brass. I just wanted something that was an upgrade from hers.

The new Andrea G. Carol brass looks very interesting but is around 2k with at least a month's wait. I wonder if it is worth the almost double price over the 6580H I can get now?
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your budget is capped at $1500 I suggest looking at the used market to get a good horn. Ideally you can visit some stores and try 10-20 horns in the next few weeks. Trying out trumpets is free and gives you good perspective and helps shape your tastes in equipment. It's worth a drive.

I think buying a trumpet new or used that you have never played before is a bad idea. You have to find what you like, not what reviews or other players say.

Edit: I noticed I didn't really answer your question about Carol Brass, forgive me. Hopefully my response is still useful and relevant. I don't have much experience with their horns.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol Brass instruments have been creeping up in price of late. Most of the new horns I see at dealers' websites are $2k or more (sometimes much more if custom finishes are involved). I don't have a ton of experience with Carol Brass aside from my CarolBrass-made flugelhorn and a friend's trumpet model something or another - the one that is almost entirely red brass. They're both lovely instruments to play. Would I spend $1500 to $2000 on a Carolbrass over a well-cared for Bach or Yamaha? That's a tricky question.

I will note that Horntrader has an absolutely delectable-looking Carolbrass CTR-6820L-PSM horn for a bit under $2k. Nickel leadpipe so no redrot concerns (it may be either a new horn or a trade show demo horn anyhow). Bronze bell. Satin finish. Looks gorgeous, and it's pretty rare to get a bronze bell at that price point, I think.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate the input. I am not 100% capped on the budget, but every time I consider the next step I wonder if I should go one more step. That's what led me from a $1000 Manchester RLGB like my daughters to the $3k Adams A2. I started out with the Sonic and decided to try the A2 since I had come this far. Then I tested the A2, a 60s Elkhart bach, a somewhat newer Bach 72 and 43, a Yamaha (don't know the model, but it played really well), my current 80s King Silverflare, and the RLGB in an auditorium with the band director there listening. The A2 sounded best, but after all the back and forth I just don't feel I'm really going to find the perfect horn. At this point, I just want a really nice horn that is a step up from the RLGB we have without going into high dollars.

I honestly don't feel like going down the path of 20 brands and 30 horns. Even one of the same model to the next seems to change. I'm over an hour from any music store with horns, and I don't know if they have the models I'd consider. I did reach out, so we'll see.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
Carol Brass instruments have been creeping up in price of late. Most of the new horns I see at dealers' websites are $2k or more (sometimes much more if custom finishes are involved). I don't have a ton of experience with Carol Brass aside from my CarolBrass-made flugelhorn and a friend's trumpet model something or another - the one that is almost entirely red brass. They're both lovely instruments to play. Would I spend $1500 to $2000 on a Carolbrass over a well-cared for Bach or Yamaha? That's a tricky question.

I will note that Horntrader has an absolutely delectable-looking Carolbrass CTR-6820L-PSM horn for a bit under $2k. Nickel leadpipe so no redrot concerns (it may be either a new horn or a trade show demo horn anyhow). Bronze bell. Satin finish. Looks gorgeous, and it's pretty rare to get a bronze bell at that price point, I think.


That's why I'm looking at few New Old stocks online. The new Andrea G Carol Brass looks nice. I got one quote on that for $1975 with a months wait. I am not a huge Bach fan, and I have only tried one yamaha (that I did like, but it didn't sound as nice as the A2). I think I can get it for around 850 with no case from my band director friend. Its in ok shape, he never liked it.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ACB has the 6580H listed for $1580 shipped, but no trial so as is. Trent A. gave it high praises. Since it is As-Is, I can find it a little cheaper elsewhere.

The 7660L is around that price from another source also. AS IS.

I think for that price I don't mind giving it either a shot since I don't find any negative reviews on either.

I'm also looking at a balanced model if I can find one used somewhere.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the 506, which is the predecessor of the 5060 and is a great trumpet, very comparable to your standard 37 profile. The 5000 is supposed to be great. It's worth considering one of these two.

I've tried the heavier weight CBs and liked them a lot. The 6580H looks like a good deal. It has the twin pipe and would be a fun instrument. I think it would blend fine and doesn't look too far out for a standard orchestra/band.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know OP said he didn't want to do the 30 horns from 20 brands route, but here's my usual observation that there are a good number of Kanstuls on the usual auction and big brass stores in his price range. Lord knows they were making 12 or 15 different B flat models by the end of their run in 2018. THers have various opinions of them; I adore my 991 (Connstellation redux) and I think the 1500 and various 1600 models have pretty solid reputations. But it's another option...
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
I know OP said he didn't want to do the 30 horns from 20 brands route, but here's my usual observation that there are a good number of Kanstuls on the usual auction and big brass stores in his price range. Lord knows they were making 12 or 15 different B flat models by the end of their run in 2018. THers have various opinions of them; I adore my 991 (Connstellation redux) and I think the 1500 and various 1600 models have pretty solid reputations. But it's another option...


ACB has a 1600 that Josh recommended. But it's at 2k plus I need a case. That puts me on up, and I don't know if it is any better than the Carol Brass for much less.

I have played quiet a few trumpets so far, but not nearly as many as I could. I just don't want to try to chase too many, and I know i'll end up wanting a 3-4k trumpet or trying to find one used for less. I'm not a profressional, and while i want to really work on this I'm not sure how it all will play out. I want to sound good, but if I'm just playing for my wife more than anything in 10 years I don't see the need in all that money on one.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP: I may have missed it but: what are you playing now and why do you want to change?
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
OP: I may have missed it but: what are you playing now and why do you want to change?


A King Silver Flare. I’ve never been fond of it. Feels muffled. I did clean it and change to a 1.5c and it is better, but I still don’t really like it. Feels stuffy. Especially after trying some others. Now I’ve promised to give it back to the original owner that would like to get back into playing when I offered it back after buying the Adams A2. So, I will be out the trumpet soon. I have a few weeks before it goes with someone on a trip to drop it off to him(he is a personal friend that lives one state up). A2 was canceled so I’m on the hunt for really good but much cheaper. Lol
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might check out ThomannMusic.com (Germany). A friend of mine ordered a Dowids rotary C a year ago and got it in three days. Good pricing. Here are the Adams Bb tpts offered...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/bb_trumpets.html?manufacturer%5B%5D=Adams&gk=BLTRBB&filter=true

And here is an Adams A2 (0.50mm or 0.02" gauge) at $2444...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/adams_a2_bb_trumpet_050_selected_sp.htm

...which is higher than you want to spend, but you might "find" an extra $1K lying around in the next few days...ya never know!
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
You might check out ThomannMusic.com (Germany). A friend of mine ordered a Dowids rotary C a year ago and got it in three days. Good pricing. Here are the Adams Bb tpts offered...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/bb_trumpets.html?manufacturer%5B%5D=Adams&gk=BLTRBB&filter=true

And here is an Adams A2 (0.50mm or 0.02" gauge) at $2444...

https://www.thomannmusic.com/adams_a2_bb_trumpet_050_selected_sp.htm

...which is higher than you want to spend, but you might "find" an extra $1K lying around in the next few days...ya never know!


I appreciate it. I technically can buy about what I want (within reason), but I don't want to buy something that'll give me a fit later or won't actually be used and ends up being a waste of money. Certain Carol Brass models are getting some high marks even compared to more traditional brands, and they are half the price. One reviewer for the 7660L said they hadn't picked up their Bach 190S37 since getting the Carol Brass. I feel better going that route.

The risk of redrot on the Adams is what is scaring me back away (and now any trumpet with normal lead pipes). This was reported by someone who buys and sells a lot of trumpets including Adams (they currently own an A2 and A5 and both show questionable signs already he said). He brought it up as we were discussing things.

ACB was going to let me have a Lacquered A2 for $2800, but I found I really don't like the Adams gig bag at all so I was going to upgrade. That's what put me up to the $3k mark. They also do no taxes and free shipping, while all other online sites I've checked with will charge shipping and possibly taxes/VAT, so it isn't really any cheaper.

Thanks for the advice, though.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chumpet, I wouldn't pick a horn based on whether or not it might develop red rot. If you like a horn, buy it. If it has a brass leadpipe then just swab it out (drying it) after every playing session. You will prevent red rot from developing. Ideally you should do the same with the tuning crook. Even if you get a horn with a nickel silver or gold brass leadpipe, I would still swab it out and the tuning crook as well every time you play the horn. It will stay cleaner which means you won't need to clean it as often. If you eat during breaks or drink sugary drinks then you really need to use the swab.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second the opinion that you should try as many horns as you can. When I was looking for a Bb, I did this, and I found I liked horns I would have never picked from their specs or what other people said. If you have honed in on the type of horn you like, you can either go for that used or have a better idea of how to pick from specs., though that is always dangerous. Sometimes even the same model of horn varies a bit in how it plays from horn to horn, but some makers are more consistent than others, Yamaha for example, so you can try a horn and buy one of the same model. There are other makers I would not do that with.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irving wrote:
Chumpet, I wouldn't pick a horn based on whether or not it might develop red rot. If you like a horn, buy it. If it has a brass leadpipe then just swab it out (drying it) after every playing session. You will prevent red rot from developing. Ideally you should do the same with the tuning crook. Even if you get a horn with a nickel silver or gold brass leadpipe, I would still swab it out and the tuning crook as well every time you play the horn. It will stay cleaner which means you won't need to clean it as often. If you eat during breaks or drink sugary drinks then you really need to use the swab.


Our friends that are professional players both do what you are saying. I am changing some habits with the new horn. I will carry a toothbrush with me in the case, and make sure I have a swab. I don't do much sugar at least.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These work very well.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=134704&s=The-Best-Damn-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-Period-

Brad
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 7:32 am    Post subject: Great trumpet Reply with quote

You owe it to yourself to go to Kessler and Sons Music on the web and check out the Kessler Custom trumpets. The top of their line has a sterling leadpipe and rose brass bell with much input from me in design. Carol Brass is making them and at under $1500 it is the equal of any Bach.

Tony Scodwell
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Trumpjerele
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carolbrass just increase the price of their trumpets between 20% and 40% at the least here in Europe. They may remain attractive prices, but much less than yesterday.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to the positive reviews and costs going up, I pulled the trigger. eBay seller themoosehorns made me a deal on both the 7660L and 6580H. Together they are cheaper than the Adams A2. I will end up selling the one I don’t want. With prices going up like they are this seems like a good deal. I should be able to get my money back on one of them Unless I just keep them both for this price.
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