View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 9:22 am Post subject: Help identify this horn? |
|
|
I grabbed bFlat horn from a guy who was going to toss it. It's been horribly abused but still plays a very sweet tone. Weird. It looks to be a Bach style student horn based on the twin main slide supports, spit valves, fixed third valve slide ring etc.
not sure how to post pics. I'm interested in the maker, but more interested in the year of manufacture.
Here's where I get lost:
The bell is marked "Harmony, Since 1832" I can't find anything besides a few references to a Bach model that may or may not have been marketed with a Harmony verbiage.
It has a serial number on the mouthpiece receiver tube of 38671702. ?? Most horns terminate at 6 digit serial numbers. (possible its a Bach 38 bell with a serial of 671702. ?)
There is a very worn 3 digit mark on the 2nd valve body that looks to be 151 or L51. It's hard to read. also the 5 is sub to the 1. Does that make sense? it's 1 then the 5 is a half line lower then the third 1 is even with the first. It looks like a poor stamping??
It's brass and has silver (Chrome/Nickel?) accents at the slide heads and joinery points.
The brass has been worn so badly that I assume someone played this thing with sweaty hands for hours on end for years on end, or they left it in the yard, or it's older than I originally thought.
Anywho, I'm good with metal work and I intend to repair this thing and noodle around the house with it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 4:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
You could do a google image search for "Harmony trumpet." I believe it's a name that's been used different times. There's a pretty good Harmonie brand out of Taiwan. Is the engraving real engraving (actually carved into the brass) or is it done by laser? That's another tip off for good vs cheap instrument. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
All good info and much appreciated! I did many searches for Harmony and came up empty, but I didn't find anything out of Taiwan so I'm going to try harder.
The "Harmony..." is definitely engraved and not laser etched.
I guess a more specific question is this: How much time would you estimate a brass instrument needs for the brass to wear through and become pitted? My old student horn was an Olds (1980) and I played it hours a day every day for at least 10 years and it was still pristine. That's why I think this may be old, not due to its construction details. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
GoingRover wrote: | I guess a more specific question is this: How much time would you estimate a brass instrument needs for the brass to wear through and become pitted? My old student horn was an Olds (1980) and I played it hours a day every day for at least 10 years and it was still pristine. That's why I think this may be old, not due to its construction details. |
Pitting doesn’t prove age. My silver plated trumpet from high school was pitted through the silver and deeply into the valve casings and the contact points just a few years after I purchased it new. Also, I have read stories on here about red rot occurring very quickly on new horns. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LittleRusty wrote: | Pitting doesn’t prove age. [...] I have read stories on here about red rot occurring very quickly on new horns. |
Interesting. Thanks for that tidbit! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks so much! Good reading! Yup, with my full magnification specs on I believe that this old horn does indeed have red rot! Interesting. Still going to clean it up, remove the lacquer and re-solder a joint or two and just enjoy it.
Hope your team wins! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's almost certainly a random stencil horn made in some unknown factory at some point - probably in China, India, or maybe Eastern Europe depending on when it was made.
The chance of figuring out who made it, where, and when are almost zero.
There are thousands, maybe millions of these random stencil out there made by various factories. There's almost no path to figuring out who made it unless you happen to have one that was made by a reputable maker - as Conn, Buescher and others did this decades and decades ago - in which case people might be able to recognize various details and structures that line up with instruments made by that maker. You can post pictures and maybe get some pointers, but almost always, these threads go nowhere because 99.9% of these horns weren't made by a well-known maker.
Even IF you manage to figure out where or who made it, companies often didn't use their standard serial number sequence for stencils.
Finally, non well known factories that made 99.9% of the rando stencils out there didn't keep records for serial numbers, the ones that did aren't published on the web, and most of the records that were kept have been lost over the years.
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, just the reality. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 4:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not a downer. I appreciate you taking the time to respond! I believe you are correct. I was just hoping because it's the spitting image of a Bach that I could find the copy-cat company and get some details. It'll still make a nice coffee table, sofa horn. Grab and play type thing, where I treat my real horn like a princess. lol. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1021 Location: East Asia
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoingRover New Member
Joined: 21 May 2022 Posts: 9 Location: Chandler, AZ
|
Posted: Mon May 23, 2022 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have Trumpet!!
Look at you! Doin' the Sloothin' (I watch too much Simpsons)!
Thanks so much. I will say the Ebay horn for $65 is exactly what I have. Except mine was free.
I did get a response from Harmony Music Co. They said, "The brand name has been purchased a couple of times since the original company went out of business in the 70s. The trumpet, along with other band instruments, would have likely been sold at a JC Penney or similar big box store, though we don't know much else."
Thanks again! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|