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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:16 pm Post subject: William Adam & Greg Wing play the routine |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 956 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Given that you haven't studied with mr. Adam, maybe someone who has (like Billy B) could chime in to share how useful this resource actually is? _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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16:10 - 16:25 getting 'position set up'
It would be very interesting to learn how Adam did that with students. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5859 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is an encredible resource that have returned to many times, for both my own inspiration and to illustrate things to students. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 956 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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dbacon wrote: | Listening to Mr. Adam and Greg Wing is a great lesson all by itself. |
Forgive me for not taking your word on it, but according to you ‘everything’ is ‘the greatest thing ever’. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1730
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:03 am Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | Given that you haven't studied with mr. Adam, maybe someone who has (like Billy B) could chime in to share how useful this resource actually is? |
It's useful as it is a primary source, Mr. Adam himself is speaking and teaching. As with everything taken as a snapshot, you can't just follow this blindly with no other context but you can use it as part of your scaffolding for your trumpet journey.
Maybe what I'm about to say is slightly controversial, but I have heard more disparaging things about Adam students and teachers than any other "school of pedagogy." The distillation of Adam's teachings would certainly lead to the bad reputation. This audio shows that Mr. Adam was a very knowledgable pedagogue who was willing to talk about "sensation" and knew about the physical aspects of playing but chose to lead the student accordingly. Too often, in the context of "the Adam School," you hear dogma and absolutes (even from Billy B) like: you can't think about feel, don't worry about the chops, etc. But that's not what he was going for, as evidenced by this audio.
The takeaway is often: play loud, just think about sound, and everything will follow. But audio like this is a breath of fresh air. From this clip, it seems he was very prescriptive and individual in his approach and very careful about the words he used with students. For those that understand brass pedagogy, there are words Mr. Adam uses that signal deep knowledge and competence. That cannot be said for all the players that have studied directly with Mr. Adam and claim to "teach his teachings."
Disclaimer: I have never had a lesson with Mr. Adam, but have taken some lessons with his students over the course of my career.
Disclaimer 2: the dogmatic approach that Adam's teaching gets distilled into is often very useful for a place like an online forum because they have a much lower chance of being used improperly. So while Billy B's one line answers to so many questions on this forum are not as effective as the one-on-one instruction with more nuance, it has a low chance of harm. There is a lot of harm done on this forum as a whole. So, criticism and applause of the distillation of his teachings. But only applause for the man himself; once we understand the approach of the man we can contextualize the dogma. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: |
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I mean this from a personal perspective, because I just don't know, but what is said by Mr. Adam on this recording that's different than anything else? I guess what I'm missing is anything insightful/unique. I'm either too dense or skipped over it. Thanks. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | ... I guess what I'm missing is anything insightful/unique. ... |
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16:10 - 16:25 getting 'position set up' - I infer this to be an indication that some type of 'how' instruction was included when necessary.
and
22:50 to end about 'pronouncing the notes' - seems like a 'how' instruction to me about tonguing. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:29 am Post subject: |
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xx _________________ Bill Bergren
Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:41 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:55 am Post subject: |
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xx _________________ Bill Bergren
Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:42 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:56 am Post subject: |
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xx _________________ Bill Bergren
Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1730
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | <you can't think about feel, don't worry about the chops, etc. But that's not what he was going for, as evidenced by this audio.>
That's exactly what he is going for. |
He was going for (i.e., his goal) good healthy trumpet playing. He was not going for any monolithic set of phrases that equaled good trumpet playing. These were all tools and phrases he used to achieve that.
Is it possible to be a human and not have awareness of the state of your chops? No. Is it smart to chase "not feeling" so much that we injure ourselves? No. But that is how some Adam-school players approach those phrases and how the layperson on the internet interprets them. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1730
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | It is interesting to me that most comments here are centered on what he said. The important points are the points illustrated by how he plays each exercise. |
Many of the worlds best trumpet players can play routine in as good as fashion as this audio. That does not necessarily make them a great pedagogue/teacher. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 am Post subject: |
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xx _________________ Bill Bergren
Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:59 am Post subject: |
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xx _________________ Bill Bergren
Last edited by Billy B on Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 956 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:53 am Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | It's useful as it is a primary source, Mr. Adam himself is speaking and teaching. As with everything taken as a snapshot, you can't just follow this blindly with no other context but you can use it as part of your scaffolding for your trumpet journey. |
Thank you for the context. Wish the OP would’ve taken the time to add it. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Gottfried Reiche Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Nov 2013 Posts: 184
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:07 am Post subject: |
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And now, the OP seems to have deleted everything he posted. What gives? |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:38 am Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | ...
22:50 to end about 'pronouncing the notes' - seems like a 'how' instruction to me about tonguing. |
----------------------------------------
I think this mention of 'pronouncing the notes' can be very helpful - and perhaps not limited to only tonguing concerns.
A very typical part of brass instruction is the idea of thinking/imagining the pitch of the note to be played - having that pitch in your mind as a way of helping to successfully play it.
The physical concept of 'pronouncing the notes' takes that idea beyond being just a mental action, and likely can activate the physical actions that are needed for playing.
Does anyone know if Adam used that concept as a regular part of his teaching? And was it limited to tonguing?
Has anyone encountered similar ideas in other teaching methods, or discussions? It is new to me, and I think it can be very helpful. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1730
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | abontrumpet wrote: | Billy B wrote: | <you can't think about feel, don't worry about the chops, etc. But that's not what he was going for, as evidenced by this audio.>
That's exactly what he is going for. |
He was going for (i.e., his goal) good healthy trumpet playing. He was not going for any monolithic set of phrases that equaled good trumpet playing. These were all tools and phrases he used to achieve that.
Is it possible to be a human and not have awareness of the state of your chops? No. Is it smart to chase "not feeling" so much that we injure ourselves? No. But that is how some Adam-school players approach those phrases and how the layperson on the internet interprets them. |
Adam talked about the difference between awareness and focus. We can focus on only one thing and that must be sound. We can be aware of many things simultaneously. When those awareness points become the focus of your playing we create problems. |
I am well versed in Adam pedagogy and the difference between awareness and focus in the context of Adam. But my post still stands. He was going for great trumpet playing. |
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