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Why most people prefer to play the trumpet over the cornet?



 
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Eduardo90
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:47 am    Post subject: Why most people prefer to play the trumpet over the cornet? Reply with quote

Hi everybody hope you all doing very well. I would like to know your opinions about which are the reason behind most players prefer to play trumpet over cornet and even some trumpet players consider cornet as a kind of inferior instrument, in my opinion you can do almost the same things on trumpet and cornet, i think one of the most obvious things that the trumpets surpass cornets is when it comes to projection, but i think that if are playing on small group or with microphone thast not a big deal, on the other hand i think that the cornet has a broader pallet of timbres because it has mouthpieces that ranges from flugelhorn like deep cups to shallow mouthpieces and thats not the case with trumpets and flugelhorns, its like Nat Adderley said on and interview when the interviwer asked him why he choosed to play the cornet instead the trumpet, and he answer that he choose the cornet because on cornet he could sound like a trumpet when he wanted to, like a flugelhorn when he wanted to and also like a cornet if he wanted to, and thast very true he has a wide varity of timbres when the same instrument on his recordings.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the big differences are in projection and brightness. As players and music directors came to value/need those characteristics the trumpet became more popular.
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mr oakmount
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the cornet gives you infinite ways to shape the tone with the mouthpiece all the way from trumpety to flugelhorny, but I think we are talking about playing on one's own or as a soloist, possibly with a microphone or in an intimate setting.
I would not use my cornet for Big Band, Mozart Masses, the Hummel concerto or Brass Quintet (unless it was of the cornet-cornet-baritone-euphonium-tuba kind).
But I love having a cornet and using it on its own terms with its own voice ... and to an unamplified bar gig (e.g. just me, piano, bass and drums) I might just take the cornet and two or three different mouthpieces.
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scatanas
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great question. I prefer a darker sound much more than a bright brassy sound. I had a Besson Prestige cornet and loved it but ended up selling it for one reason: projection (or lack thereof). I play regularly in my church brass band with all trumpets. I simply could not be heard when I played the Besson, unless I had a solo.

So my solution was to get a dark sounding trumpet. This way I get a cornet sound but with trumpet power.

My ideal sound is Wynton’s (especially on the Bolden movie soundtrack). I would describe his sound as cornet-ish in terms of darkness/brightness but trumpet-ish in terms of projection.

I now play the Martin Bohme Tumultuous with a Curry 3C mpc and so far I like it a lot.

I owned a Monette P3 trumpet but I have NEVER been able to find a Monette mouthpiece that suited me, and I tried them all. And the moment you put a regular mpc in a Monette horn it sounds just like any other trumpet so there was no point in keeping it. Never regretted selling it.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Why most people prefer to play the trumpet over the corn Reply with quote

Eduardo90 wrote:
Hi everybody hope you all doing very well. I would like to know your opinions about which are the reason behind most players prefer to play trumpet over cornet and even some trumpet players consider cornet as a kind of inferior instrument, in my opinion you can do almost the same things on trumpet and cornet, i think one of the most obvious things that the trumpets surpass cornets is when it comes to projection, but i think that if are playing on small group or with microphone thast not a big deal, on the other hand i think that the cornet has a broader pallet of timbres because it has mouthpieces that ranges from flugelhorn like deep cups to shallow mouthpieces and thats not the case with trumpets and flugelhorns, its like Nat Adderley said on and interview when the interviwer asked him why he choosed to play the cornet instead the trumpet, and he answer that he choose the cornet because on cornet he could sound like a trumpet when he wanted to, like a flugelhorn when he wanted to and also like a cornet if he wanted to, and thast very true he has a wide varity of timbres when the same instrument on his recordings.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Why most people prefer to play the trumpet over the corn Reply with quote

Eduardo90 wrote:

<snip>

on the other hand i think that the cornet has a broader pallet of timbres because it has mouthpieces that ranges from flugelhorn like deep cups to shallow mouthpieces and thats not the case with trumpets and flugelhorns,

<snip>

This statement implies that there aren’t mouthpieces for the trumpet that accomplish the same effects. Which based on my experiences isn’t true.

But over time it does appear that trumpets have become the instrument of choice in the majority of situations, and I too wonder why this is the case. One notable exception being the British Brass Bands.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, it's very simple and that's the expectations of the setting. Symphonic Wind Ensemble, Orchestra, Jazz combe, pop cover band and Big Band, Trumpet. British Brass Band, Trad. Jazz and some solo work, cornet.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eduardo90 wrote:
the cornet has a broader pallet of timbres because it has mouthpieces that ranges from flugelhorn like deep cups to shallow mouthpieces and thats not the case with trumpets and flugelhorns

It’s possible to get just about any mouthpiece cup shape for either trumpet or flugelhorn as well, and depending on the instrument, it can affect timbre just as much as it can on a cornet. As for anyone’s reason to play a specific instrument, I suspect it’s pretty much individual rather than some broad, community-shared reason (though genre, familiarity and popularity/trends probably play some part in it too).

My own reason is that for the settings I play (orchestra, big band & small combo), a trumpet makes the most sense as a main instrument. For those instances where a mellower tone is required, a bigger contrast is often preferable. Hence I opted for a flugelhorn over a cornet as a secondary instrument.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:
Eduardo90 wrote:
the cornet has a broader pallet of timbres because it has mouthpieces that ranges from flugelhorn like deep cups to shallow mouthpieces and thats not the case with trumpets and flugelhorns

It’s possible to get just about any mouthpiece cup shape for either trumpet or flugelhorn as well, and depending on the instrument, it can affect timbre just as much as it can on a cornet.

Absolutely. The cornet does not have an edge over the trumpet, when it comes to the variety of mouthpieces out there.

However, the trumpet has an advantage over the cornet, when it comes to the variety of instruments out there. For example, Bach currently sells 3 Bb cornet models, but has more than 20 different Bb trumpets.

I'll add that the combination of a trumpet and flugelhorn covers the spectrum pretty well, and may make the cornet somewhat obsolete in many (but maybe not all) situations.

Mike
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robb Stewart wrote an article about this. Lots of interesting research in here:

https://www.robbstewart.com/history-of-the-modern-trumpet
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Rwwilson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m not sure that I agree with the OP’s statement that players prefer the trumpet. I personally prefer to play the cornet. That said, I wouldn’t play it in a Big Band just as I wouldn’t play trumpet in a British Brass Band. They are two different instruments with different characteristics and different roles. Take for example marches from the Sousa era. They often have cornet and trumpet parts. The cornets play the more melodic parts while the trumpets play fanfares and fills. Clearly composers of that era saw a difference in the two horns.

This difference seems to have been lost. Since high school, many years ago, and in multiple amateur bands since, including some very fine ones, the “trumpet sections” have just ignored the fact that many parts were written for cornet and play them on trumpets. This, I believe, is because they haven’t been taught to appreciate the difference and may not have access to cornets. As far as trying to get a cornet sound from their trumpets by mouthpiece change, I’ve never seen anyone in these bands even attempt it.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the lesson notes by Tim Kent he learned from Bud Herseth.

Differences between cornet and trumpet - there is none due to modern methods of construction. Most of sound difference is due to bends in tubing, rather than conical vs. cylindrical bores.

Stravinsky pieces - in world premieres of many of his works, Stravinsky said that cornets need not be used because of little difference between them and trumpets.

R. Tomasek
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
From the lesson notes by Tim Kent he learned from Bud Herseth.

Differences between cornet and trumpet - there is none due to modern methods of construction. Most of sound difference is due to bends in tubing, rather than conical vs. cylindrical bores.

A small thing that may or may not be important - the long model cornet mouthpiece backbore controls about .70 inch less of the overall backbore/leadpipe taper than a trumpet mouthpiece - leaving the rest of the taper to the leadpipe. The mouthpiece gap is also .70 inch closer to the mouthpiece throat than on a trumpet. (Yeah, I know, some are gappless but the leadpipe venturi (smallest point) is closer to the mouthpiece throat .
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Rwwilson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cornets and trumpets do sound different, even when played with the same mouthpiece. I know this because I have compared my 1950s era Olds Recording cornet and trumpet to each other using the same mouthpieces. I used a trumpet style cup CG3 as well as a cornet style cup Curry 2TC in both. In both cases the cornet produced a “darker” sound with more low overtones than did the trumpet. Of course the cornet with the Curry piece was the “darkest”.

I also have a 1906 Holton cornet with two original mouthpieces. When played with these original deep V mouthpieces it has a deep, mellow, almost but not quite Fluegelhorn sound. I think this is mostly due to the mouthpieces. The same mouthpiece in my 1950s cornet does not produce as deep a tone.

My conclusion is that cornets and trumpets do sound different and that cornets probably have changed over time to be more like trumpets.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the majority of kids in US school band programs learning on trumpet has anything to do with it?

For someone who has only played trumpet, cornet is a foreign instrument. Usually such players pick it up and sound like they're playing a trumpet because they don't know how to approach a cornet. This alone would cause almost anyone to doubt if buying a cornet and learning how to play it is worth it.

(Conversely, someone who has only ever played a cornet will pick up a trumpet and play it like and sound like a cornet player.)
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up in Southern California in the 1960s and '70s listening to Herb Alpert and the TJB, Al Hirt, bands like Chicago, Earth, Wind & Fire and later Seawind and Miami Sound Machine.

In the late 70s and 80s, the pop music scene hit it's instrumental zenith, in my opinion. That's the era that established what a trumpet should sound like in my mind. I've wanted to play that music since the 1960s when I had to choose between trumpet and drums. I made that choice the summer before 5th grade. I played in concert band, marching band and orchestra through High School, but in college I played in the Stage Band.

I never wanted to play cornet. I don't relate to the sound. Except once.

I was at Flip Oakes' shop one day when he was finalizing a silver short cornet for a customer. He told me that I could play it. I kept finding it in my hand to play it some more. No matter how many times I'd put it in its case, somehow it would be back in my hand, once more. It was entrancing. It was intimate. It tapped into a part of me I never dreamed was there. Then, it was gone, sold to another person.

I don't want a cornet, unless I happen upon another WT Shepherds Crook that plays like that one.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:18 pm    Post subject: Why most people prefer to play trumpet over cornet? Reply with quote

Some really excellent answers here. I got my first experience on cornet when I went to college and auditioned for a spot in symphonic band and made it. The u. provided a Getzen Eterna. I loved that horn and used it for everything except Brass Choir and Jazz Band. I liked the sound of the cornet, too. I also agree with those who talk about the cornet not reaching out the way a trumpet does. There were two short solo sections they had me play in symphonic band and for those the principle handed me his Schilke Al. That long cornet would project just a little more. I don't know if after that time (54 years ago) I have preferred one over the other but I just feel they have things that each if very strong at. Good topic.
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mr oakmount
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona has a point:

When Hector Berlioz wrote for Cornet in his "Symphonie Fantastique" there was a world of difference between the valved (very narrow bore) Cornet a piston in A and the still valveless natural trumpet (that would have been twice as long). Early valved trumpets (usually pitched in "low" F) still preserved that natural trumpet vibe.

When this piece is played today, many orchestras do not bother to differentiate between the two cornet and the two trumpet parts, and why should they, since if you use e.g. the new "symphonic" Yamaha C-Cornet (which receives a trumpet shank mouthpiece!), there is barely a difference to the two "short" valved trumpets next to you. Actually a modern rotary valved trumpet with a suitable mouthpiece would sound warmer than said cornet.

So the difference would be mainly mouthpiece choice and ... the musician's approach.

But I would still say that the cornet is a different instrument, if you honour it on its own merits, get to know it well and play it differently than your trumpet.
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