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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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 Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet56 wrote: | | AndyLott wrote: | | trumpet56 wrote: | | Having tried some of the 'New Bachs', I prefer my 2 old Bach C's. One is from the New York era with a LB 26 bell which gives a sound full of color and my 'Tottle Phone' ML Bach which has the 238 Vindabona bell originally owned by Ghitalla from the early 60's. Both of these Bach's have open sounds. |
Hi Bruce,
When was the last time you played some? Sorry to say I don’t think you have tried any of the “New Bachs.” Maybe some Bb’s if it was very recent but definitely not the latest new C’s that you compare them to in your post. Very few people have played the latest version of those.
Thanks,
Andy |
Hi Andy,
My latest Bach C was a Artisan C sorry but it didn't suit me. With my trumpets Bb and C because of other physical considerations as well as the different mouthpieces and resistances from the leadpipes etc, I have constructed two Bach C horns that suit me. I am looking for sound quality that stays the same in all 3 registers. I would like to test the New Bach's but haven't got the funds to afford them. |
I think calling artisan bachs “new bachs” in a thread about retooling, tweaking design and build process to create a new Bach rather misleading, intentional or not. I can understand why Andy was inquiring about your post. |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:17 am Post subject: |
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I am under the impression that the Artisans are not only not the "New Bachs," but (like the Mariachi and the Commercial models) they will no longer be made. Nice try, but not a successful one.
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2440
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Through other channels, I have heard some grumbling about the 1B Commercial being discontinued. Those who like it, really like it. The 1 (or "T") bell was what Bach first chose after beginning production for a personal horn - but then he discontinued it too.
Other horns one might recall that were enthusiastically received and then were cancelled include the Martin Committee, the King Silver Flair, the Kanstul Bessons, the Wild Thing, etc. These were really outstanding horns that were (and still are) beloved by a (sometimes large but still) niche market. But once everyone in a generation that wants one has one, it's pretty rough on the manufacturer when sales evaporate.
The NY7 is another case of a model that has experienced this sort of boom & bust twice now in Bach history.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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HagsJohnstrom
New Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2023
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 7:34 am Post subject: |
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After extensive laboratory testing of the new Bach models in my home sound studio using state-of-the-art sound wave form analysis tools and software, I'm bitterly disappointed to report that the 13th partial on most of these horns is precisely 4.8956 cents flat!
This is totally unacceptable for a heavyweight professional like myself. Sigh. Guess I will just have to keep using my Flip Oakes Wild Thing C trumpet, which I have scientifically proven to have the most overtones per note (demonstrated by how quickly I can shatter wine glasses when I play Mahler 5 8va).  |
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MrOlds
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 724
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:39 am Post subject: |
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I spent a couple of minutes with the M37X and the new 190S37 yesterday. Both were fantastic. My totally subjective experience:
The M37X was effortless to play. Beautiful, somewhat compact sound. Warm to bright in nanoseconds. Great projection. If you need to play long, fast and intricate lines and also spend a lot of time above the staff at reasonably loud dynamics this might be a good fit for you. I had a medium bore NY Bach for a few years. This one is similar in terms of nimbleness. The old NY had a sweeter sound but the M37X can be pushed harder. To be honest, the nickel inner slides were strange to see. But once I played it I got over it.
The new 190S37 was fantastic too. A little more traditional 37 sound. Not quite as effortless as the M37X but much easier to play than a 180-37. Lots more of what you like about a 37. Lots less of what you don’t like about a 37. One of the few 37s I’ve played that didn’t do that Jekyll & Hyde thing at first ledger line A. This one played evenly and predictably up to double C and I’m definitely not a double C player.
If you’re looking for a 37 these are both excellent choices. Different from each other and different from the 180-37s of the past 50 years. But different in lots of good ways. |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| MrOlds wrote: | I spent a couple of minutes with the M37X and the new 190S37 yesterday. Both were fantastic. My totally subjective experience:
The M37X was effortless to play. Beautiful, somewhat compact sound. Warm to bright in nanoseconds. Great projection. If you need to play long, fast and intricate lines and also spend a lot of time above the staff at reasonably loud dynamics this might be a good fit for you. I had a medium bore NY Bach for a few years. This one is similar in terms of nimbleness. The old NY had a sweeter sound but the M37X can be pushed harder. To be honest, the nickel inner slides were strange to see. But once I played it I got over it.
The new 190S37 was fantastic too. A little more traditional 37 sound. Not quite as effortless as the M37X but much easier to play than a 180-37. Lots more of what you like about a 37. Lots less of what you don’t like about a 37. One of the few 37s I’ve played that didn’t do that Jekyll & Hyde thing at first ledger line A. This one played evenly and predictably up to double C and I’m definitely not a double C player.
If you’re looking for a 37 these are both excellent choices. Different from each other and different from the 180-37s of the past 50 years. But different in lots of good ways. |
Thanks for posting your impressions.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| MrOlds wrote: | | The new 190S37 was fantastic too. A little more traditional 37 sound. Not quite as effortless as the M37X but much easier to play than a 180-37. Lots more of what you like about a 37. Lots less of what you don’t like about a 37. |
Thank you for this informative review.
If you would be willing: I was wondering if you could expound a little further with regard to what use cases you see the 190S37 fitting, and not fitting?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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MrOlds
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 724
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you would be willing: I was wondering if you could expound a little further with regard to what use cases you see the 190S37 fitting, and not fitting? |
With the caveat that this is entirely subjective on my part, I’d say the new 190S37 is positioned in the middle of the bell curve with adequate tails on both the zippy end and the dense/dark end. If you play a wide variety of things the 190s37 would be a good tool.
Th M37X definitely has a longer tail on the zippy end of the bell curve and the 180-37 has a slightly longer tail on the compact/dark/dense end.
That’s about as far as I’d go. We all have our preferences. And we all play differently. |
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nowave
Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 453
Location: brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| I’m very interested in trying the 190M37x in particular — anyone know whether any store in NYC has one yet? |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| nowave wrote: | | I’m very interested in trying the 190M37x in particular — anyone know whether any store in NYC has one yet? |
I'd check with Josh Landress and see when they are getting some.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I've had one and it was my perfect, Goldilocks sound.
The only reason I sold it was because of it's weight. I need to qualify. That horn is pretty much a standard weight. It's that, for me, weight is a big factor. Otherwise, it would be my go-to horn. Beautiful sound and I noticed no quirks like flexibility, intonation, etc.
If it weren't for the weigh I would take it, hands down.
(p.s. and I have never been a Bach guy, horns or mouthpieces.)
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Brassgurus
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Palo Alto, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
All of the NAMM Bach trumpets were delivered to my store in San Jose yesterday.
If you are local feel free to come try them out. If you are not local please feel free to visit my website brassgurus.com. I have them listed.
Thanks!
Eric Hand
Peninsula Music and Repair
Park Ave Music Center
1717 Park Ave
San Jose, Ca. 95126
408-279-5100 x722
eric@brassgurus.com |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Brassgurus wrote: | Hello,
All of the NAMM Bach trumpets were delivered to my store in San Jose yesterday.
If you are local feel free to come try them out. If you are not local please feel free to visit my website brassgurus.com. I have them listed.
Thanks!
Eric Hand
Peninsula Music and Repair
Park Ave Music Center
1717 Park Ave
San Jose, Ca. 95126
408-279-5100 x722
eric@brassgurus.com |
Saw you post them on facebook..
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | I've had one and it was my perfect, Goldilocks sound.
The only reason I sold it was because of it's weight. I need to qualify. That horn is pretty much a standard weight. It's that, for me, weight is a big factor. Otherwise, it would be my go-to horn. Beautiful sound and I noticed no quirks like flexibility, intonation, etc.
If it weren't for the weigh I would take it, hands down.
(p.s. and I have never been a Bach guy, horns or mouthpieces.) |
How did you manage to get one of the new Bachs before they were released? I am impressed.
And you not only bought it but sold it on too. 
Seriously I think people have been discussing the new Bachs and are asking how they play, not the current generation. |
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wilder
Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020
Posts: 341
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| davidkoch wrote: | Wow this thread really is something else.
So much butthurt and bad info rolling around. Personal favorite was “Rashard Ross”
Glad to see these new horns coming out, and I can’t wait to give them a blow and see how they are… instead of armchair trumpet judging. |
yes. jw |
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AndyLott
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | I've had one and it was my perfect, Goldilocks sound.
The only reason I sold it was because of it's weight. I need to qualify. That horn is pretty much a standard weight. It's that, for me, weight is a big factor. Otherwise, it would be my go-to horn. Beautiful sound and I noticed no quirks like flexibility, intonation, etc.
If it weren't for the weigh I would take it, hands down.
(p.s. and I have never been a Bach guy, horns or mouthpieces.) |
How did you manage to get one of the new Bachs before they were released? I am impressed.
And you not only bought it but sold it on too.
Seriously I think people have been discussing the new Bachs and are asking how they play, not the current generation. |
Petition to change the name of the thread to New New Bachs! 😁 |
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TrumpetMD
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2412
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| AndyLott wrote: | | Petition to change the name of the thread to New New Bachs! 😁 |
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I bought a brand new Bach directly from a Bach representative a couple of months ago. There was nothing newer available (and still isn't?) at the time. I call that "new".
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Jon Kaplan
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Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 300
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | I bought a brand new Bach directly from a Bach representative a couple of months ago. There was nothing newer available (and still isn't?) at the time. I call that "new". |
With all due respect, that’s what this thread is talking about. Actual new Bach trumpets, which were publicly released like last week at NAMM. A Bach from a couple of months ago would not be one of these “new” ones.
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2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I bought an old Bach.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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