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DavinG
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, TX
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 Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:28 pm Post subject: Embouchure troubles with high notes |
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I've been having a little bit of trouble with building my range. At the moment, I can play up to a double A without any serious pressure headaches, or tension. But whenever I try to go even a half step higher, to a Bb, the note only comes out for a very short amount of time and I feel like I need to change my embouchure. Despite this, chances with my aperture, or tongue placement don't seem to help me get higher.
Any and all tips are appreciated |
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GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm no expert, but I suspect you are running out of air. Try taking a deeper breath. Up there, the more air you have, the better.
George
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I can play up to a double A |
You mean A above high C ? |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:34 am Post subject: |
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If it's the A above the staff, then it might be too much upper lip mouthpiece rim pressure - so much that the pressure inhibits lip flexibility and vibration / pulsation.
In that situation, try using some / more lower lip rim pressure by using your jaw - and it is the pressure that is important, not much actual jaw movement. Additional lower lip pressure can change the balance of upper / lower pressure distribution and allow the upper to be more flexible. Learning to use and control the distribution of rim pressure is an important part of playing.
If you are trying to get high notes by stretching your lip thin and tight, that's another problem - it can cause lack of flexibility, and injury.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 899
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeB wrote: | I'm no expert, but I suspect you are running out of air. Try taking a deeper breath. Up there, the more air you have, the better.
George |
I disagree. Too much air up there is the enemy, blows open the chops. Play softly up there, getting the note to quietly speak, then and only then will the note open up with a bit more air. High notes take very little air. |
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Vin DiBona
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Most of us refer to a double A as the A above double C.
We use high C as a reference point, meaning, any note from high C to double high C is merely called high.
Some have been taught otherwise, yet every player I know says high until double C.
One uses far less air in the extreme register. The embouchure must be kept as closed as needed for the note. Too much air and POW! no sound.
R. Tomasek |
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Shaft
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 982
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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+3 less air up high. Adding air most likely is not what you need to change.
Also - sometimes we actually need to “not change anything” to go up.
It can be that we are changing something unnecessarily. |
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DavinG
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Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, TX
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | Quote: | | I can play up to a double A |
You mean A above high C ? |
Yes, or to be more specific, the A 5 spaces above the staff |
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DavinG
Regular Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2022
Posts: 17
Location: Grapevine, TX
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Vin DiBona wrote: | Most of us refer to a double A as the A above double C.
We use high C as a reference point, meaning, any note from high C to double high C is merely called high.
Some have been taught otherwise, yet every player I know says high until double C.
One uses far less air in the extreme register. The embouchure must be kept as closed as needed for the note. Too much air and POW! no sound.
R. Tomasek |
Huh, well, I guess I was taught otherwise. from what I've learned and what I've been told, the 'double' range starts at the E above the staff and then the 'triple' range starts at the next e, an octave above that |
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Billy B
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Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Listen carefully to your sound as you approach your highest pitch. I would bet you will hear your sound begin to change 3-4 notes before your highest pitch. Work on these notes until they have "the sound".
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2595
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Embouchure troubles with high notes |
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| DavinG wrote: | I've been having a little bit of trouble with building my range. At the moment, I can play up to a double A without any serious pressure headaches, or tension. But whenever I try to go even a half step higher, to a Bb, the note only comes out for a very short amount of time and I feel like I need to change my embouchure. Despite this, chances with my aperture, or tongue placement don't seem to help me get higher.
Any and all tips are appreciated |
From what I understand that approximate range is a common problem area - it is for me. I can hit G and Ab big but A, Bb, B are really stubborn - I have a better batting average getting Dub C to come out than those notes.
But, if I hit things just right they'll pop out. Just recently I slid up from a first ledger B up to a high B and it came out easy and strong. The other day I got multiple Bb's to come out, seemed easy. So obviously it's a matter of finding just the right balance.
Doc Severinsen had a strong Dub C and then some range but I've seen examples of him struggling with an A. I'm told Bill Chase had problems with A.
What I've found can help is applying just a hair more pressure on the top lip and being conscious of the gap between the teeth and of course make sure you're driving enough air.
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RussellDDixon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 832
Location: Mason, OH
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2022 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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There are very minute nuances between these notes ... feel it going up (from note to note) as it stays the same right on up past double C. COMPRESSION is what increases. I practice legit studies with a Claude Gordon Personal Mouthpiece with a #20 drill and then my Monette Prana feels smaller with a 23 drill. My advise is more compression.
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My advise is more compression. |
You mean air pressure, right? |
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