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nowave
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Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 453
Location: brooklyn
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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:17 am Post subject: |
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There are some great older threads on this topic. IMO your best bet is to stick with the Curry 3C for a few months, WITHOUT going back and forth. Be rigorous and put all of the other pieces out of sight (or freeze them in a block of ice old-school style!).
After that you’ll be in a great position to know if you’re done, or if you need to downsize a bit. Curry can scale down his 3C if needed as a custom order. |
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jhatpro
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Joined: 17 Mar 2002
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:31 am Post subject: |
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I thought 10,000 posts would guarantee perfection. Not.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Everybody has its own perferences, these are mine.
I own and owned several Curry mouthpieces but never found one that I really liked. And the 3 rim feels big.
And I never was able to get a nice sound out of a Bach 3C.
Warburton is top class but the 5 size is smaller than the Bach 3C. The Mouthpiece express comparison charts give something between the sizes 3 and 4 to compare with Bach 3. Size 4 for is IMO close to the modern Bach 3C but with the high point of the rim more to the inside of the cup.
I own a Warburton Arturo cup which is Terry's interpretation of Sandoval's MtV 3C. In my opinion a very good cup but on the small side.
The Yamaha 14D4 is a tremendous mouthpiece, sort of better Bach 3B. But the sound is on the dark, orchestral side. I use it on bright trumpets, for my regular horn I play the Yamaha 14C4, very good 3C stylish mp, gives more room for sound manipulation than the 14D4 and sounds a little bit 'fresher' IMO.
If you prefer the Bach touch I can recommend the 3C's made by Josef Klier, the USA serial (Bach copies). I have one for cornet and one for trumpet and in fact these are the better Bachies. You can order them with a 3.6 op 3.8 bore, the last one feels just a bit more open.. They have a better rim than the Bachies, I think also a slighyly deeper cup and sound (in my ears) much better, maybe also cause of the more balanced (and bigger) backbore.
Both the Yamaha's and the JK's are cheap mouthpieces so you can experiment a little bit.
Personally I prefer for the moment soundswise the Yamaha 14C4 (and 14D4) but so now and then I switch to the JK 3C with 3.8 bore.
BTW testing heaps of mouthpieces in a shop will not give you a good result. Better is to make for yourself some profile of how your mouthpiece must be, rim, diameter, cup, throat, backbore, choose then one and try that one for some time, let's say 6 weeks to two months or so.
I own a Yamaha 14B4GP and I never found the sound dull. It's on the bright side, James Morrison plays a 14B4, that kind of sound. If I ever should have the wish to play in a bigband again I probably would choose that mouthpiece for endurance reasons. |
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2047
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Delano on the Klier JK USA mouthpieces. I started on a 5C 40+ years ago and still have it in my bag in case I damage one of the ARs. Great company to work with - I had a few custom mouthpieces from them for below 100 EUR shipped. They may be slightly more expensive now but absolutely doable. You can also get screw rims, if so inclined.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9345
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| JazzyJP wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | I played an old Bach 3C for many years, but was never completely happy with my sound on it. About 4 years ago, I bought a Curry 3C. and immediately loved it. Better sound, and the more comfortable rim greatly helped my endurance. For a little more mellow sound, I later bought a Curry 3B., which is basically his 3C. mouthpiece with a slightly deeper cup and 26 throat. It’s also a keeper |
I do love the Curry 3C. Out of all the mouthpieces I’ve tested, it’s my favorite so far. Has more depth to it. I like that the rims stay the same as well. I was looking into the B cups. I’ve heard extremely great things about the BC cup. Have you had the opportunity to play one of those? |
I’ve not played the BC cup, but after talking with Mark about it, it appeared to be similar to the Bach 3B. I owned a Bach 3B for a year or so and never acclimated to the cup shape and backbore - nice sound, but it sucked the life out of me. I told mark I really just wanted his 3C. with a slightly deeper cup, and he said his 3B. was what I needed.
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BudBix
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Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 519
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:34 am Post subject: |
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The Warburton 4 series is worth a try. The 4MD is closest to a Bach 3C maybe a tad deeper. The rim of the current Warburton is flatter than a Bach 3C so it feels a little smaller to me. The Warburton website says his 7 backbore is closest to the standard Bach 10 on the 3C, however, I prefer the 6 or 7*. The nice thing about the Warburton system is if you get on with them you can get different cup depths and backbores to change up your sound without changing the rim. FWIW I'm a 3C player and have been playing a 4M/6 and 4M/Q for years. (The Q is a tighter backbore I use for long gigs or a brighter sound.). Warburton's shallow cups are very U shaped (low alpha
angle in GR terms) so folks who bottom out on popular pieces like 14A4A can go shallower on Warburton. |
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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| The Bach 3C to which JK USA corresponds (diameter and depth) ? |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mauri wrote: | | The Bach 3C to which JK USA corresponds (diameter and depth) ? |
JK uses for the USA serial the Bach nomenclature but JK copied the MtVernon pieces so the JK 3C could feel a little bit bigger and will be also a little bit deeper than a modern Bach 3C. But there may be different MtV mouthpieces of the same size so it depends also on which individual mouthpiece they copied.
And copying backborers is difficult, I believe JK use their own backbores which most of the time in Germany means big(ger) backbores.
Last edited by delano on Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I thought 10,000 posts would guarantee perfection. Not.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | I thought 10,000 posts would guarantee perfection. Not. |
Depends on who is posting and your system of how to find the right posts between the 9.995 'less valuable' (I have to be nice here) posts. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:20 am Post subject: |
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_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe the Pickett 3C? |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | JazzyJP wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: | | I played an old Bach 3C for many years, but was never completely happy with my sound on it. About 4 years ago, I bought a Curry 3C. and immediately loved it. Better sound, and the more comfortable rim greatly helped my endurance. For a little more mellow sound, I later bought a Curry 3B., which is basically his 3C. mouthpiece with a slightly deeper cup and 26 throat. It’s also a keeper |
I do love the Curry 3C. Out of all the mouthpieces I’ve tested, it’s my favorite so far. Has more depth to it. I like that the rims stay the same as well. I was looking into the B cups. I’ve heard extremely great things about the BC cup. Have you had the opportunity to play one of those? |
I’ve not played the BC cup, but after talking with Mark about it, it appeared to be similar to the Bach 3B. I owned a Bach 3B for a year or so and never acclimated to the cup shape and backbore - nice sound, but it sucked the life out of me. I told mark I really just wanted his 3C. with a slightly deeper cup, and he said his 3B. was what I needed. |
I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. If someone held a gun to my head and said I had to play legit style trumpet music, it would be the mouthpiece I would use. Fortunately, no one has done that. But if they did.....
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1908
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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JazzyJP
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Joined: 04 Nov 2022
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth. |
They’re quoted and have been discussed as being the exact rim and bite. However; with the shape of the cup being less bowl shaped, it changes the feel for different players. So switching between the BC and others can feel quite different on someone’s lips. Mine are a bit bigger and in the cup, so cone shaped mouthpieces really don’t well for me.
Same exactly rim and bite, but can be way different in feel.
Edit: Many go for the BC cup because it’s listed almost as being deeper, which might be true? But I believe the B cup has more volume because of its shape, right? Trying to have a better understanding in case I pick one up at some point.
Last edited by JazzyJP on Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tptptp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 1408
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | | I thought 10,000 posts would guarantee perfection. Not. |
I think 10,000 is supposed to be the requisite for expert status, not perfection.
So, you would now be an expert at posting.
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Richard III
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Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth. |
The BC has a C rim with a B cup.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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wilder
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Joined: 27 Jun 2020
Posts: 341
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mauri wrote: | | Stick with the modern Bach 3C, a great mouthpiece. Today there are many mouthpiece manufacturers, but the results are poor. |
I agree. jw |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1908
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | | The BC has a C rim with a B cup. |
The Curry B should also have a (Mount Vernon) C rim. To quote Curry's website:
"Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim."
The B and BC cups are simply two different cup shapes and/or depths within the Curry 3 diameter, the BC being the Bach funnel-shaped design, while the B is Curry's own cup-shaped B depth. However, with respect to Curry's 3 rim, there is a caveat:
"** Note: All Curry 3 rim sizes now have a dot (.) after the size. This is the current 3 rim profile offered since 2004. The older 3 rims (no dot) are available as special order only. The (.) dot rim has proved to be even more popular than the old 3 rim profile. This rim is also based off of an older Mount Vernon rim and is more compatible to today's 3 rim player looking to switch to Curry 3 rims."
Could it be that one of your mouthpieces has the "3 dot" rim while the other has the "3 no-dot" rim?
If not, then I would go with what JazzyJP said in his last post in this thread.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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tptptp
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Joined: 25 Oct 2001
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Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I, too, have tried many 3C-ish mouthpieces over the years.
I guess it's sort of an off-beat piece, but I always go back to my Blackburn Sonare 3C. I don't remember where I got it. I've never owned a Sonare trumpet.
I get the best accuracy of note production, especially above the staff, and I like the sound....Even better than a Blackburn 3C without "Sonare" stamped on it.
Just last week, I lined up several mouthpieces in the 1.5C-3C range and played them all. Favorite from that group was Bach 1.5C. Then back to the Blackburn, and no doubt it was the best for me.
I wish I knew the specs on it so I could evaluate why it feels best!
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