Buzzing Embouchure

[jicetp]

Hi folks

Been experiencing with a buzzing embouchure firmness lately and was wondering what you do specifically for this topic.
As most of us trumpet players ( I guess ) I probably overdid the process and thought that G top of the staff was a good buzzing reference point, but after doing it for several weeks, some things happened :

- much better consistency, less warm up time needed, probably because I find the ' sweet spot ' much faster and operate from that on a more consistent level.
- better high range, but low range suffers a bit while doing things with this set up
- higher volume suffers, and thats the annoying thing to me. I feel the little aperture refrains from passing much air and thus volume is limited

So my next journey is to experiment with different starting points to see the results out of it.

I kinda feel each set up will have pros and cons, just like mouthpiece choice.

What is your take on this ?
Very interested to read your thoughts

JiCe

[BeboppinFool]

[Tony Scodwell]

Reynold Schilke told his students not to buzz at all. Buzzing the mouthpiece has no resistance and nodal points and he was adamant about it. My "Chop-Flex tool was designed to provide the resistance of the trumpet and allows interval playing. I use it daily for a short warm-up prior to practice. As for other player's techniques, Doc Severinsen would always buzz his mouthpiece prior to warming up and usually would not stop even when conversing with someone up close. It got wet sometimes when speaking to him as he wouldn't stop the buzzing.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

[BeboppinFool]

[Doug Elliott]

When thinking about "buzzing firmness" or "compression" or any other ambiguous terms like those, try a little different approach.

You should NOT be mashing your lips together and forcing the air through. Let the air out, let the lips vibrate. Buzzing in the range of low C to 2nd line G is very easy and natural for most players, and that's where to start.

I'm not so sure that Reinhardt really meant not to buzz below 2nd line G. I asked him directly about that more than once, and never got a clear answer specifically about trumpet. The octave below that is what he meant on trombone, and in many ways that makes sense. I sometimes have trumpet students buzz that low (low G). but I think low C is completely reasonable to buzz on trumpet.

[JoshMizruchi]

Before I got into Reinhardt, I used to lip buzz below middle concert F all the time. I had pretty good success at that time, either because of or in spite of it.

Reinhardt instilled that rule of not buzzing below middle concert F because, I’m pretty sure, he was trying to keep people from spreading their chops. Very understandable, because it can, especially in the wrong hands.

Since studying Reinhardt, I have not buzzed below concert F as per his instructions and it has helped, but I sometimes wonder if a bit of educated experimentation with buzzing lower could help. I may experiment with it at some point when I’m ready to address it and let you know what happens.

That said, from my experience, you’re probably less likely to develop spread chops from buzzing than you are from doing things like overblowing in the middle and low registers, buzzing your mouthpiece (for too long at least) or playing pedal tones, all three of which Reinhardt was not in favor of. That said, if you’re one of those players who does “loose lip buzzing” that almost turns into horse flapping, I’m pretty sure that could spread your chops pretty badly too.

As far as the buzzing embouchure, yeah, definitely don’t force it. You can hurt yourself. Better to let correct practice make it happen on its own. Lastly, remember that Reinhardt said that the correct sensations will not be as vivid as they start to take hold, and do not be alarmed by that.
_________________
Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com

[Doug Elliott]

"Spread chops," there's another totally ambiguous term.

What do YOU mean by that? Relating to playing, buzzing, or what?

Buzzing is or should be very controlled. Maybe in a variety of ways.
Overblowing in the middle and low registers is uncontrolled.

[Tpt_Guy]

Not a Reinhardt student or practitioner, but I am curious about this thread. Is the topic in question regarding buzzing with or without a mouthpiece?
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[JoshMizruchi]

To me, spread chops means the aperture is too open.

That’s what all of this stuff I mentioned earlier seems to do to peoples’ chops. Or at least it did to mine when I did it.

Overblowing is mainly a trend. Unfortunately, a good portion of people these days play really loudly in the middle and low registers, and it makes it harder for everyone else playing with them.
_________________
Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com

[Doug Elliott]

"Buzzing" in Reinhardt terms always means without a mouthpiece.
And the way I teach it is soft, controlled, and with a clean sound.

"Overblowing" and playing loud (correctly) both open the aperture but not the same way. So what's "too open"? And open vertically or horizontally, or both?

[JoshMizruchi]

Good question, I never thought about it that deeply, but I guess it’s vertical, for me at least. So when my aperture was too open, my jaw was too low. I am a trumpet player, and I think it would tend to be more vertical for trumpet players because of the smaller mouthpiece. With trombonists, there could be more room in the bigger mouthpiece for different aperture issues to occur. But I don’t know enough about trombone to say for sure.

The first thing that made me aware of the aperture at all was Cat Anderson’s book. I know it’s not Reinhardt, but I remember Chris LaBarbera said Doc told him it might be a good thing to try. I would say that some of the things Cat discovered were definitely in line with Reinhardt, and those basic principles helped him develop the chops he had that we continue to marvel at today.
_________________
Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com

[Doug Elliott]

That gets right to my point. The real problem is the jaw too low. The aperture or "spread chops" is just the effect of the jaw being too open.

The jaw should be "just open enough to permit a good sound" if I'm quoting Reinhardt correctly.

And relating that to buzzing, the same applies - it's entirely possible to buzz down to low C and even below that, with a normal chop position and without opening your jaw.

Volume, sound, and low range do not have to suffer from buzzing IF you do it right. I use buzzing to OPEN the sound and HELP low range. But you have to train the right muscles in the right way - and not train the wrong muscles in a bad position.

[JoshMizruchi]

Indeed. Don’t drop the jaw for the lower register.
_________________
Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com