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thejoed Veteran Member
Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 143 Location: Minneapolis
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:00 am Post subject: |
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As I read our responses, I wonder if we remember that in the original post the OP states that he must replace the 734 because the parents decided that the 734 is going to a younger sibling. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9025 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Could already have been suggested, but I don't want to go back and reread all of the above, but . . . why don't you call ACB and talk to one of the staff who are familiar with Adams' selections? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Could already have been suggested, but I don't want to go back and reread all of the above, but . . . why don't you call ACB and talk to one of the staff who are familiar with Adams' selections? |
Good idea, but for the A8 it's a must play first situation, in my opinion. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | TheGecko251 wrote: | It's was a great horn for all the different genres I was playing in middle and high school, but now that I'm only really playing jazz I'm seeking something a little more purpose built if that makes sense. |
That does. I play an Austin Winds stage466 - I do understand that focused approach.
TheGecko251 wrote: | I think the 734 is so versatile because of how much the tonal color changes based on the volume, but I don't want/ need that tonal versatility any more. And honestly I feel like I've outgrown it if that makes sense? |
No, that does not make sense. Sure, you may have a focus, but playing opportunities always arise that will fall outside of it. Finding what best supports where you are going is, of course, the right path. But the idea of outgrowing other playing is way off base. You should become more versatile as you grow as a player, not less. |
I don't think wanting a more specific sound limits me at all genre-wise though. I think that the little inflections and nuances in technique that you naturally get from listening to specific styles are what defines different genres rather than the actual timbre of the trumpets being played. Like even in mariachi, where most people tend to have wonderfully sparkly sounds, I would say the main defining factors are the specific articulation and fast vibrato. _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602 |
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | I agree with OSE and generally think the starting assumption of the thread is „flawed“, for the lack of a better term. Moving on is great but it seems the OP actually likes his 734, gets along with it, and also gets the right results. So why move on? I can go from cornet-like to quite aggressive on my Bach with a change of approach to a tune and a change of mouthpiece.
Your itch for a new horn (who would EVER understand that on TH ) seems to be based on the plain look of your 734 and only to a smaller extent on the new sound concept, which appears to evolve/change/whatever (I think the Schilke Bx and related Yamaha designs are among the most elegant trumpets designs out there, but tastes are of course different).
I’ve been there and when I went into my comeback now almost 10 years ago I discovered TH and loads of other internets sources, went down the rabbit hole, and read about all those heavy, dark sounding trumpets with a huge bell. Felt like I needed one, too.
Guess what: I didn’t. I kept coming back to my Bach and only later, when the real need arose I bought my Schmidt rotary, which is my favorite horn these days because it sounds so warm and friendly but (here is the catch) not extremely broad. More polite than the Bach, yes, but not like a flumpet.
Long story short: find a horn that you feel it could fit the bill, possibly the A8, but keep your 734. You may find yourself going back to it more often than you think. |
That's a good point, in this case I'm probably gonna end up giving it to my sister but luckily enough decent 734s are plentiful and cheap and will probably only be getting cheaper. If I could be more specific, I would say the 734 is giving me great enough results. I don't have any problems with it (except it looking a little boring sometimes), but that doesn't mean that I can't find something better (sound wise first, finish wise way last, if at all).
I get what you mean about coming back to the OG horn. I was having some (mechanical) problems with my 734 in middle school so I played my dad's 80s bach 37 while it was being diagnosed and honestly it was cool at first but then I had to play it on a gig and the novelty wore off and I realized how different the "Bach" sound was from the "old yamaha-shilke copy" sound, especially in context. I gotta find an Adams to play, later this week I'm gonna try a bunch of horns for research (and fun). _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602 |
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry wrote: | As I read our responses, I wonder if we remember that in the original post the OP states that he must replace the 734 because the parents decided that the 734 is going to a younger sibling. |
yeah, I'm glad to do it though, I think my sister is gonna love it. _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602
Last edited by TheGecko251 on Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Could already have been suggested, but I don't want to go back and reread all of the above, but . . . why don't you call ACB and talk to one of the staff who are familiar with Adams' selections? |
I emailed the Adams staff themselves but they haven't gotten back to me , I'll give the ACB guys a call they'd be a great help for sure. _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602 |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:39 am Post subject: |
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If I were you, try before you buy and take a trip out to ACB before dropping that much money for a horn. I have owned a few Adams horns in the past and I currently have an A9 in my collection which I really like for small group jazz. For 6K you could buy a few used horns. I have three Bb's for different applications. Good luck in your search. |
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raynjtrumpet Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2021 Posts: 53 Location: Freehold, NJ
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: |
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jcubed901 wrote: | One additional thought. If you cannot try the horns in person, this YouTube video is a good “cheat code”
Joe Babiak tries out 52 trumpets including the Adams A8. You’ll be able to hear him play more conventional horns, and observe how the sound shifts as he tries different instruments.
https://youtu.be/ox1uXzMBp4I
(FYI, he has a pt 2 video where he tries even more horns) |
If I remember right, at the end of that video, Joe goes with an Adams, but later he decided to go to Martin Boehme and have a custom horn (Tumultus?) made.
Don't know where the OP is located, but Martin's instruments are frequently available from ACB in Kansas City and Josh Landress in NYC. _________________ Ray Ritchie
Freehold, NJ USA |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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lmao the big bell one is the nissan juke of trumpets _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602 |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1924 Location: WI
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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TheGecko251 wrote: |
lmao the big bell one is the nissan juke of trumpets |
. . . or this:
https://amazingcars.photos/1957-aurora-safety-car/ _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Shawnino Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Inderbinen do amazing work.
I have a basso re-tooled for the right hand alone and it's the most versatile instrument I have.
Customer service also impeccable. |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1924 Location: WI
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Shawnino wrote: | Inderbinen do amazing work.
. . .
Customer service also impeccable. |
I absolutely agree!
Regarding the Bigbell (as Inderbinen says), it has a diverse range of sound possibilities and was developed for experimental musicians; all kidding aside, Inderbinen should be applauded for pushing the envelope regardless of how over-the-top the result seems visually. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1099 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:38 pm Post subject: Horn |
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Is there anything in the current Yamaha line up you'd consider? They sell large bore horns, and getting something with a gold brass bell would be an option.
Whereas their previous Xenos or 'heavy wall' horns often would have mixed reviews, their new models are just fantastic. _________________ Brent |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1924 Location: WI
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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TheGecko251 wrote: | The visual look of a horn is important to me, the only thing I dont like about my yamaha right now is that it looks like every other silver plated horn. |
Maybe you should take a look at the Edwards X-13 while you're at it; that horn has a distinctive look, and I think it would meet some of your other criteria as well. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Phoenix864 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2019 Posts: 223 Location: Washington DC, US
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:36 am Post subject: |
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A couple of thoughts about the A8 - it's a cool horn, and I've been lucky to have the chance to play one. The one I played had a gold brass bell and was set up with roughly a Bach 3C for the integrated mouthpiece. I really liked it - it was a rich and full sound, just a bit darker than an A4LT w/ a red brass bell and an A4 w/ a gold brass bell. It doesn't sparkle quite as much as the A4LT, but is a bit warmer. I'd say the A8 is on the more open side (which I prefer) and felt very consistent throughout the registers. In terms of playing characteristics, I'd certainly be happy playing one as my primary horn, through I slightly preferred the A4/A4LT (felt like they slotted slightly better for me). I was also very impressed with the A1v2.
However, I think the A8 has a couple of non-playing related downsides. You mentioned that you want something unique, and I can certainly understand that. However, as someone who regularly plays a Harrelson Summit out-and-about, I find that having a unique horn often attracts negative attention. I've found there can be some pressure to 'live up to the horn,' ie others expecting you to play great to match the supposed 'greatness' of the horn. Not to say you won't play great, but I feel more pressure compared to when I play a 'standard' horn. I avoid taking the Summit to some gigs for this reason.
I've also found the design of the horn also attracts more complaints about blending. In my experience the Summit functionally blends fine, but the design can influence others' perception of the sound, where different horn = different sound = doesn't blend.
The last thing is the integrated mouthpiece. It's cool, but after going through the swap process on the demo horn I'd worry it would become annoying. There are a ton of threads to screw in/unscrew, so removing/installing takes a bit - certainly nothing like the second it takes to swap a regular mouthpiece. You also limit your mouthpiece choices and make it difficult to try other mouthpieces. The integrated mouthpiece alone would be enough to encourage me to look at another horn.
I'd echo the Edwards X13 recommendation. I haven't tried one, but it's the next horn I'd like to try out. I've heard lots of great things about how it plays and it offers a bit of a unique design while not being too noticeable. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Try the X-13. I tested one a while back and it is one of the 2-3 horns I feel are true competitors to my current trumpets. It’s versatile, it’s lightweight, and it looks cool, too. Only thing I’m not a fan of is the Amados.
Another unique looking horn would be a Puje, and I presume it could be made to look whatever you want it to.
Finally, I’d definitely look at DQ, he could likely also build you what you want, including the funky looks. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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TheGecko251 Regular Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2022 Posts: 20 Location: La -> Philly
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Phoenix864 wrote: | A couple of thoughts about the A8 - it's a cool horn, and I've been lucky to have the chance to play one. The one I played had a gold brass bell and was set up with roughly a Bach 3C for the integrated mouthpiece. I really liked it - it was a rich and full sound, just a bit darker than an A4LT w/ a red brass bell and an A4 w/ a gold brass bell. It doesn't sparkle quite as much as the A4LT, but is a bit warmer. I'd say the A8 is on the more open side (which I prefer) and felt very consistent throughout the registers. In terms of playing characteristics, I'd certainly be happy playing one as my primary horn, through I slightly preferred the A4/A4LT (felt like they slotted slightly better for me). I was also very impressed with the A1v2.
However, I think the A8 has a couple of non-playing related downsides. You mentioned that you want something unique, and I can certainly understand that. However, as someone who regularly plays a Harrelson Summit out-and-about, I find that having a unique horn often attracts negative attention. I've found there can be some pressure to 'live up to the horn,' ie others expecting you to play great to match the supposed 'greatness' of the horn. Not to say you won't play great, but I feel more pressure compared to when I play a 'standard' horn. I avoid taking the Summit to some gigs for this reason.
I've also found the design of the horn also attracts more complaints about blending. In my experience the Summit functionally blends fine, but the design can influence others' perception of the sound, where different horn = different sound = doesn't blend.
The last thing is the integrated mouthpiece. It's cool, but after going through the swap process on the demo horn I'd worry it would become annoying. There are a ton of threads to screw in/unscrew, so removing/installing takes a bit - certainly nothing like the second it takes to swap a regular mouthpiece. You also limit your mouthpiece choices and make it difficult to try other mouthpieces. The integrated mouthpiece alone would be enough to encourage me to look at another horn.
I'd echo the Edwards X13 recommendation. I haven't tried one, but it's the next horn I'd like to try out. I've heard lots of great things about how it plays and it offers a bit of a unique design while not being too noticeable. |
Thanks for the input, especially your comparison to the different bells on the a4/a4lt, that's really useful. Interesting about the slotting though, I would think that the integrated mouthpiece would give the A8 the edge. After comparing the a4/lt/8 do you think that articulation suffers with the 8? That's maybe the only downside I've heard, aside from the mouthpiece switching being tough (I rarely switch for context). As for the X-13, I think the bore might be a tad small, I tried a ytr-8xxxR that was .463 I think and it felt cozier than my .460 horn now but still left a lot to be desired. Hence the interest in the big boy .470 a8 _________________ Aleko
Adams A4 Custom
Ytr-734
King Cleveland 602 |
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