• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Most Nimble Horn


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tyler.slamkowski
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2017
Posts: 103
Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:15 pm    Post subject: Most Nimble Horn Reply with quote

What, in your opinion, is the most nimble (or agile) horn you have ever played? Nimble defined by the following:

-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation

Secondarily, is it good for all genres, or is more oriented to a particular style (mariachi, classical, jazz, symphonic, etc.)?


Last edited by tyler.slamkowski on Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:54 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything else, LOL?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tyler.slamkowski
Veteran Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2017
Posts: 103
Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Anything else, LOL?


I think I was pretty specific. Feel free to share your opinions on the question if you would like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 615
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of the horns I personally own, the Kanstul 991. Much more agile than my Bach, the valves are incredibly fast, and its Connstellation bore (.438") makes it extremely efficient and easy to make leaps and bounds that would have my sweating on my Strad. It's also very mouthpiece sensitive and can change from laser beam bright to flugelhorn diffused depending on mouthpiece and depth of cup. Not dissimilar from Trent Austin's old videos showing the demonstration of the Conn 10A, which is basically the Kanstul's spiritual grandfather.

On the downside, its D-E flat-E partial at the top of the staff is quite flat. Alternate fingerings flat.
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richard III
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2611
Location: Anacortes, WA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said horn, opening up a vote for cornet. But still, I'm guessing you are asking about a trumpet. If you will consider a cornet, I might have a few recommendations.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
markp
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 2814
Location: Coarsegold, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I think of agile, it’s about being able to get all around on the horn with the least effort, allowing you to concentrate on the music rather than the horn.

I think horns with a step bore are more agile, at least for me. Flugelhorns are even more so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to use the word 'responsive' in regards to what I need a horn to do...
but think that relates to your definition and criteria just the same.

Top 3 in my rotation most recently:

'48 Olds Super
'79 Calicchio
'20 DelQuadro

I choose the horn based on the work and the sound I need...but all are evenly
responsive for the job I ask it to do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peanuts56
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2021
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an older Yamaha Bobby Shew model that has an expanding bore the entire length. I also have an Olds Recording model that I bought in 73.
The Shew model is definitely easier to get around on and is easier in the upper register. I top out on a G or A flat over high C on both. I don't work nearly as hard on the Yamaha. I use the same mouthpiece on both, a Yamaha 14B4. It came with the horn and is comfortable. I've tried a few shallower mouthpieces and was never comfortable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jeirvine
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2022
Posts: 328
Location: Baltimore, MD USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it is probably my 1978 Trek 930. It's columbus steel, and has similar geometry to other 70's stage-racing bikes, but it just wants to go, and disappears under you. One of those things that's hard to quantify.

Oh wait - trumpet forum. In that case, my '49 Olds Special; same qualities. Just a "let's go" response across the whole range. You never feel like you're fighting it.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1803
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpets that come to mind

Getzen Eterna (include the .458 tuning slide) - most things with the right mouthpiece

Schilke B6
King Golden Flair (the one made in the late 70's)

I liked both of the above for small pit orchestras where an intensity of sound was needed at a moderate volume.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JonathanM
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2013
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great question!

I had this same thought about a year ago, when I was doing some practice. It was really fast arpeggios and I was using a timer to push myself. I thought my Benge 4x, which seemed very nimble to me (light, easy to play) would be the most nimble horn in my arsenal... So, I'm doing the timed excercise with the Benge, then I think of my Schilke B6, so I pick it up and do the same excercise. Both were easy, so I increased the tempo. I kept increasing the tempo until my Benge, to my shock, was left in the dust by Schilke's B6. I kept increasing the tempo, faster and faster... No horn in my arsenal came close to the B6 - and I tried several.

It's been mentioned above, and I agree, step-bore horns definitely have my nod towards what I consider nimble, and when you add in a Medium bore, like the B6, in a step-bore model, well, a horn like the B6 is very hard to beat. The B6 is similar, in some ways, to Yamaha's 8310, the Z horn; that's pretty efficient and nimble as well.

I think one of the last questions you had revolved around the use of the horn; is the B6 a 'do it all' horn? That's a lot of ground to cover, because I think it's mostly used for a commercial sound or genre. However, with the right mouthpiece I think the ability of many horns can be enlarged for different uses. And I'm a huge believer in various metals and styles of tuning slides... A copper tuning slide would darken the B6 considerably, I think, and I'm sure MK could draw something like that up rather easily. Really, many horns, with the proper mouthpiece and tuning slide, can be stretched to fit many different requirements.

But, and I think Andy Cooper has beat me to it, I agree; the B6 would be a difficult horn to beat in the agility arena.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8331
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Benge 3x is the most responsive and agile horn I have, or have played for any length of time.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom LeCompte
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 3341
Location: Naperville, Illinois

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Schilke B1 and it is nimble almost to a fault. You need to drive it - you can't just come close and let the horn find it for you. You need to be in the driver's seat for sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why don't we all play a Schilke B6?
Seems like a bit of a smart aleck question, but I mean it. What do other horns have that the Schilke doesn't have?

Jonathan, you say the Schilke is very close to the Yamaha Shew. I could never get comfortable with the Shew's sound. How's the comparison?

Same sort of question regarding your Benge. Intonation aside, how did the Benge/Schilke sounds compare?
Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Goby
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Conn Connstellation 36B (and its twin the 8B) fit your description better than almost any other trumpet. These horns are lightweight, have short-stroke pistons, a medium bore, and have great intonation. The 36B is definitely oriented towards jazz and commercial music, and has a very bright and edgy sound, but can mellow out when you need it to. I would also add that playing a smaller mouthpiece (and properly acclimating to it) will do more for your trumpet-playing agility than a new horn. Take Allen Vizzutti for example: he uses a mouthpiece that is roughly a 3E, much more shallow than any classical player would dare to use, and is able to play incredibly virtuosic passages with ease.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JonathanM
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2013
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kehaulani, the B6, like Yamaha's 8310Z, is simply not a workable horn for a lot of players. For that matter, step-bore horns probably aren't either. I've got a friend that is quite a good player, but he couldn't work with either of the above horns; they play 'tight' to many people, but for those who can use Medium Bore or tighter step bore horns, the efficiency, or in this instance nimbleness, is phenomenal. And, to a degree at least, I think tone can be colored to meet other needs through mouthpiece and tuning slide options.

Personally, I had a B1 that I also really liked, but as it was a larger bore horn, I couldn't get it to work as nimble for me as the B6.

My ears aren't as keen as they used to be, and I hate to say it but my ears have never been as keen as some top trumpeters, but the Z horn might have been a slightly fuller sound, and the B6 a bit more cutting... But that's to my ears; I'm sure others could argue otherwise with their B6's or Z horns.

On to my Benge... I think my Benge, which I've always thought was light and superbly efficient until I tried it against my B6, seemed to have a less compact sound, but to me a larger fuller sound. For top end range though, I've hit a few double high-C's with my Benge; not fit for recording, but the B6 cut me off around F above high C - and again, that's why the B6 isn't for everyone; it really requires efficiency to utilize it fully. In the lower register the B6 was phenomenally efficient for me, but I couldn't maximize it in my upper range. And there, in the upper range, my Z horn was more open than my B6. Not as open as my Benge though. For that reason, I don't have the Z or the B6 any longer; I still have my Benge. I liked them both, the B6 and Z horn, and admired each for their specific strengths, but I've found better total fit with other horns.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18037 SterlingSilver+, 18043*, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 8965
Location: Hawai`i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, Jonathan.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2021
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Difficult question because we are all different and feel things differently. I would vote for my Schmidt rotary, fast valves, excellent intonation, quick response, easy to articulate. For me, and I just really learned this over the last three years, agility has a lot to do with mouthpiece choice. Pair my trumpets with an AR and there you go. Pair them with, e.g., a Lotus or Monette, and other qualities like power and focus will prevail over the nimble side.

Moreover, I’d definitely agree on the B6. It’s high up on my „want“ list and has been for years - just can’t justify yet another great horn. Another one in the nimble department that comes to mind is the X-13, but see what I just said about the B6

Edit: @JonathanM, I absolutely agree with your assessment of the B6 vs. the Shew horn. The Shew (talking the 8310Z here) seemed much warmer (and a little less open) to me than the much more brilliant sounding B6. I clearly preferred the B6 for sound and playability.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Halflip
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: WI

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
King Golden Flair (the one made in the late 70's)

Yes!
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dayton
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 1990
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
-Fastest, most consistent valves
-Flexible
-Crisp articulation


As I look over your criteria, I think that mouthpiece choice and mouthpiece receiver gap will matter more -- perhaps MUCH more -- than which model trumpet.

That said, the Getzen Canadian Brass CB10 and Shires AF come to mind as being particularly nimble. Both also have excellent valves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group