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Is the difference worth 2500 bucks?


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thecoast
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Is the difference worth 2500 bucks? Reply with quote

Hello, folks.

I know the question in the subject line can only elicit subjective answers, but I suppose that nowhere else can one ask this kind of question and at least know that most everybody gets the question, has an idea of the brain strain.

I took my Bach Omega to Jim’s Musical Instrument Repair in San Dimas to fix a leak coming from the top leg of the tuning slide. The slow leak was driving me nuttier. Long and short, he fixed it! So I’m quite pleased because it has a beautiful, rich tone very much like a Strad and I was hoping to keep it. Or at least sell it conscientiously.

But the idea was to sell the Omega to help pay for a 37.

Well, I purchased the Strad from the Mighty Quinn for a relatively good price. It’s a beautiful horn. And the sound is so…smooth. I think that’s the sound that a lot of folks here call “core” and who knows what else. The difference in sound between the Strad and the Omega is almost negligible, but it’s there. That or the $2500 price tag makes me feel and think it should there.🤔

I guess I’m writing to think out loud. Part of me says, “keep the Strad, use the Omega as a back up or travel horn.” Sounds good, right? Another part says “return it; you’re not a pro player anyway; the Omega is good enough and way less expensive.” And yet again, “the best trumpet is the one you own, not the one you have to pay for.” And “why keep both?”

So there are two aspects to this question: (1) Are the differences in sound and, to a lesser extent the aesthetics, worth 2500 bucks (2) to me?

I guess I could say that if I’m having so much of a struggle, it’s likely that neither aspect is the case. That is, if the sound were really significantly different, this probably would be a no-brainer and I’d keep the Strad.

There is another layer to this question. I’m a disabled vet and more than half of my disability rating is depression. I’m on good meds for it—which means I don’t get despondent and am clear-headed most of the time; however, on bad days I still get irritable and disgusted for part of the day. Sometimes a big part of the day. So when the horn came, I was having a kind of bad day. Kind of bad because the anticipation of getting a practically new Bach Stradivarius 180S37 was exhilarating; but kind of bad because—exhilaration notwithstanding—I was still in a funk. When I opened the box, I was excited—but not nearly as excited as I thought I would or should be. The horn wasn’t as shiny, the sound wasn’t as big of a deal. I was underwhelmed in an overwhelmed sort of way, if that even makes any sense.

The thing is, I recognize the fact that my physical-emotional state (those who have ever been clinically depressed know what I mean by that) definitely colored my experience those few days ago when the Strad came. But today has been a pretty good day, so when I picked up the Omega from the shop and saw that it was fixed, and then when I took them both out to compare their sounds and they weren’t really that different—certainly not $2,497.88 worth of difference, if such differences can be quantified—I started to second-guess myself in earnest, to the point of writing on this marvelous [at times] forum.

I know I’m overthinking this, but that’s just how I am.

A cost analysis doesn’t prove helpful either.

Keep the Strad: regret the debt.

Return the Strad: regret not having kept the horn.

Sell the Omega: might help considerably towards defraying the Strad debt.

Keep the Omega: you have a back up horn that you can still enjoy and not be afraid of dinging.
===============

I was so sure I should get and was so excited to get the horn when I ordered it. Why can’t life be simple?! 😒 🙄 I suppose I could just chalk this up to run-of-the-mill buyer’s remorse. First-world problems.

Sorry fellas. I think better when I write. I guess I got it off my chest.
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teacherdad
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's okay : ) Choose what you choose, then be happy. The best part of those horns is the air you breathe.
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, those kinds of dilemma’s are all too familiar. Unfortunately, I cannot make the decision for you (well, I could but you’d probably end up with a 3rd horn).

When I first got the trumpet I now play, I instantly loved it. However, a while later I had given my old trumpet a thorough cleaning and compared the two. And then the doubts started as to whether my new trumpet was actually an improvement. The 2 sounded far more similar than I’d liked to admit. But the thing is, had I kept playing my old trumpet, I doubt I’d still be playing at all at this point. My new trumpet gave me a huge motivational boost and made me practice not only more, but also with a better technique.

It has taken me a while to grow enough as a player to truly appreciate the benefits of a professional quality horn. The main advantage is that everything is just a little bit easier, nicer and better…and those small differences really add up when you play for a whole evening, even if they barely register in a side by side comparison. But it’s also letting me grow as a player where the old horn was holding me back, even if I can now play both horns better than I could back then.

My take from all this is that it really helps to find a horn that just makes you go: wow, I wanna play this thing every day. And whether that’s one horn, or even both, is ultimately up to you.
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thecoast
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacherdad wrote:
It's okay : ) ... The best part of those horns is the air you breathe.


That was just downright poetically beautiful.

Thanks. I think I needed to be reminded of that bigger picture.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't really understand the collectors on this site when I first joined, and then I've slowly started to collect instruments. I honestly would just keep both instruments and then sell at some point when you want to (probably the best time to sell the Omega would be late July/early August before band camp). Here are several things I tell myself:
-I'm lucky I play trumpet and not violin or bassoon or even french horn. We don't have to deal with changing strings/hair, reeds, etc.
-If you buy used, the resale hit is low. Maybe if you need to sell the Strad you might "only" get 1500 or 2000 for it, but in the meantime you'd have had a fun time playing. And who knows? In a few years the price might have gone up and you could sell for what you bought it for.
-It does help to "know" how much difference the equipment makes. I've tried a mix of trumpets and mouthpieces and am mostly no longer buying stuff anymore. I feel like I can tell what's me and what's the instrument and how much difference a mouthpiece can make.

I had a TR200, which is very similar to an Omega, and I also really liked the sound. I felt it has as much core and tone as the strad. If you just want to go back to it, that's totally okay also.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a calculation that is different for all of us. If you can afford the Strad and like how you sound on it more than on the Omega, then keep the Strad and sell the Omega.

If you are strictly looking at this from a return on investment perspective, you'll likely find diminishing returns that are difficult to quantity. If you think your sound and technique are good on the Omega (in good repair) you probably won't instantly jump up to amazing on the Strad. It might be more like good+. But if that good+ makes you happy, and you play the Strad for another 20 years then you've paid something like $0.34 per day for that happiness.

Good luck and have fun!
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Proteus
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some early morning thoughts:

Dunno if you're over-thinking this; it sounds like like the normal "Should I? Do I really need it?" thoughts that most of us run through our heads when considering an equipment upgrade...except that you've already bought the 37. Now you're second-guessing yourself.

So:
- if the shortcomings of the Omega are clearly holding you back and the 37 removes those barriers, keep it and enjoy. Doesn't sound like this is the case, though...
- from what you've shared, it doesn't sound like you need the 37...but if you can afford to keep it and don't need the $$ elsewhere, keep it and enjoy.
- if you've passed your mid-50s and this is going to be the last horn you'll ever really need, keep it and enjoy.

By example: I just ordered an ACB Doubler flugel from Trent for $800 USD ($1,100 shipped to Canada). Would I appreciate a used Yamaha 631 over the ACB? Probably. Can I justify paying twice the price for a used 631 if I can find one? Nope. Do I need more flugel than the ACB? No. Would I hear a twice-the-price difference? I doubt it. Is this the last flugel I'll ever need? At age 67, yep. Will I enjoy playing the new ACB? Absolutely; it is by all accounts a very decent horn.

I think it was Pops who's alleged to have observed that our day-to-day playing is affected far more by variations in our "software" than by variations in our "hardware". I'd add that getting hung up about equipment pros/cons is a rabbit hole to be avoided. Get a decent horn, play it and enjoy.

Hope this helped. All the best!
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: Is the difference worth 2500 bucks? Reply with quote

thecoast wrote:
...The difference in sound between the Strad and the Omega is almost negligible, but it’s there. ...

Are you evaluating the sound from behind the mouthpiece, or is someone else evaluating the sound on the other side of the bell?
I'm asking because I've experienced that those sounds can be quite different.

If possible, get another player to play the two horns at you, the further away the better. Then you will have a much better idea of what these horns really sound like.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What "Jerry" said plus do your comparison in a large live room or auditorium then play it in the middle of a trumpet section to check out feedback.

One of your tests should be at extreme volume .


Last edited by Andy Cooper on Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have previously owned several Omegas (and TR-200s) that were as good as many of the Strads I have owned, if not better. But, that was years ago. The newest Bachs are worlds better, and it generally isn't close. I'd try more 37s...or a 43 or my personal favorite, a Bach with a 72 bell.

The one you got may not be the best match for you. Most of my students notice the biggest differences when they go from their new instrument back to their old one. The shortcomings of the old horns show up rapidly.
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fleming
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:17 am    Post subject: For a while…. Reply with quote

Suggestion : Keep ‘em both for a while, then decide. No hurry.

Maybe find a promising young kid that needs a horn, gifted or sold at whatever price the student can afford…..?

Just a thought.
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markag
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the most part, you are always going to sound like you on any horn you play. The real difference is going to be how does the horn feel to you while playing, and how much work do you need to put into making that horn do what you want it to do.

The differences may be subtle, but that's the name of the game when you are comparing instruments beyond your basic student model horns.

Think of it like a mechanic. That $10 store brand ratchet wrench will still loosen the bolt the same as a $50 snap-on or other "pro" wrench will. But the pro wrench may have finer grade ratchet for smoother action, or may feel more comfortable in your hand because of the design of the grip. The action being performed is the same, but the difference comes in the sum of all the little things that make the experience better in the end.

If you don't think of it as purely sounding different (because we tend to always sound like ourselves on different equipment) and, instead, consider how the playing experience differs between the two horns, you may find your answer.

And you should give yourself time with the new horn to fully acclimate to it before going back. The subtle differences may be more apparent if you get adjusted to the new horn. You may realize how the old one lacks in areas only after you get used to the new horn fully.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is financially possible, keep both horns. If either needs repair and you have to leave it at the shop for a period, you still have another horn to play.

I say this because I repair instruments and this is a constant question: "Do you have a backup horn?"

Best of luck,
-Lionel
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Brent
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:31 pm    Post subject: horns Reply with quote

I think you should keep it.

Whether you're a pro or an amateur doesn't matter. Plenty of amateurs use Bach 37's. In fact, plenty of amateurs use Monette horns, which is also okay.

I'd also add that there's so much benefit from playing music, or having some sort of creative outlet, to help with what you're dealing with. If playing music is something that helps with your depression, then I think it's worth every penny.
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Rogerrr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a friend who used to run an art gallery and numerous art events.....

Whenever a stressed artist would ask him for advice "should I use the black frame or the shiny one...or...or" or any advice about their art, he would always say "whatever you decide will be exactly perfect"

At first I thought he was saying that to get someone who was worrying too much to relax a bit, then I realized what he actually meant was that the person was thinking through every possible detail was actually the only person qualified to make the right decision since they were the only person who actually understood their specific situation

I say keep the horn for now (if it's not a financial problem ) and enjoy the subtle differences ... sell one later if you need to

BUT

Whatever you decide will be exactly perfect
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donovan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thecoast - does your Omega have a fixed ring on the third valves slide or is it adjustable? If fixed, it IS a Strad. If adjustable, it's a TR200.
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Ancientram
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:23 pm    Post subject: $2500 Price Difference Reply with quote

What Markag and Your Brass said.

Take some serious time to get the feel of how the Strad works for you, or maybe doesn't work for you.

If you have someone else play them to you, what you'll hear is how they sound on the horn, how they work with the horn and how the horn works for them for the first moments. Weigh their comments, and how it sounds to you, but make your decision based on how the horn works for you, not someone else.

Never hurts to have a solid back up.

HTH,
Steve
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thecoast
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

donovan wrote:
thecoast - does your Omega have a fixed ring on the third valves slide or is it adjustable? If fixed, it IS a Strad. If adjustable, it's a TR200.
Adjustable. Which I actually like better than the fixed. If I could, I would put a trigger on the third valve slide. Or I would have the ring moved out so my pinky could move it. Weird, but comfortable and less wobble engaging the slide ring.
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thecoast
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am deeply grateful for all the amazing people who have shared their thoughts. The kindness in your remarks was refreshing and pleasant.

I’m using a Bach 1. Just a warm sounding, comfortable mouthpiece. I am also using a Legend 1.5C and the horns sound a tad less warm. (I can’t believe I used to use a Bach 10.5C and even a 12C. For a long time, probably till 2009, I used a Parduba 2 [approx a Bach 12]). Really enjoying the process of comparing as I also read the encouraging responses.

I’m thinking of a different angle. I was thinking that since these Bb horns sound so similarly rich and smooth, maybe I could return the new Bb and swap it for a C trumpet. I have a Stradifakius C that I have decided I don’t want to use ever since I started experiencing pro horns. I even decided that I’d keep it for parts, were I ever to get a genuine C Stradivarius. Anyway, I think that would be a great way to keep a pro horn (by getting a C) and keeping a great Bb trumpet. But I see they tend to be more expensive than the B flats. I’ll keep chewing on that. Maybe Quinn has equally good prices for a C.
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Rapier232
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dol you need a C trumpet? I’d much rather have good B trumpet than a C trumpet I’d hardly use.
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