EVGs = Ergonomic Valve Guides by Jacob Hoskins

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

Jake Hoskins is a young brass repair technician employed at Meridian Winds (band instrument shop) in Okemos, Michigan.

He has invented and patented a valve guide replacement system called Ergonomic Valve Guides, or EVGs for short. You can view them on his website:

https://bajocmusic.com

(Bájoc is Jacob with the letters rearranged.)

https://bajocmusic.com/bajoc-ergonomic-valve-guides-evgs/
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The Bájoc EVGs were made to:

Eliminate valve catching issues that take place inside of the spring barrel; and
Ensure that the valve is able to move freely and yet quietly* while utilizing the EVGs.

*Quietly is being used as a general term here since each player has a different approach to what "quiet" valve action sounds like.

https://bajocmusic.com/product/bajoc-ergonomic-valve-guides-evgs/
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Here is a video tutorial that he just made to demonstrate installing them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feJsrW2EQHA
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I now have these on two of my Bach Bb trumpets...43 & 37*...after having Jake install new MAW valves in both horns. I'm considering buying some EVGs for other horns. Price is under $150 for a set of three.

Andy Cooper · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:45 am Post subject:

I guess, when I think about it, I never had spring noise from, Olds, older Kings, or Getzen trumpets and cornets.

Rather clever solution.

Christian K. Peters · Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:31 am Post subject: EVG

Hello all,
Clever yes. I think Conn used a similar, outer sprung valve.
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dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

GordonH · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:35 am Post subject:

The Boosey and Hawkes "microbore" valves had the outer springs too. As used on the Sovereign cornet.

One tip: Most spring noise comes from portion. You can stop that by applying a thin layer of slide grease to the top of the valve guide and the inside of the valve stem where the spring sits. MOre simply, just dab the top and bottom oif the spring in the grease. It only needs a tiny amount. As the spring compresses and trys to turn it won't stick and make a creaking noise.
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dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

GordonH · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:03 am Post subject:

It requires a tiny amount of grease. So little I can hardly see it and I have never got any into the valve. I only have to do this with instruments that have brass valve guides normally.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:05 am Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:25 am Post subject:

trickg · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:18 am Post subject:

I see things like this and on one hand I see it as a solution in search of a problem. On the other hand, I have had an issue with a couple of horns with spring vibration and buzzing on certain notes, and this would definitely be a solution to that issue.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that they are making them for Jupiter trumpets, and my main axe is still the Jupiter XO Roger Ingram model.
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Patrick Gleason
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Bájoc Music · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:32 am Post subject:

Hello all!

I saw dstpt post here about my EVGs and I thought I would chime in with my thanks for the review, as well as add some more news and/or information.

For the past couple years, I was looking to develop a universal valve guide design that would allow for smoother valve action while also eliminating the issues of the valve guides "catching" or rubbing up on the inside walls of the spring barrel (or spring box, whichever you all prefer).

As a brass technician (as dstpt previously mentioned), I've had many opportunities to analyze and take notes on horns that would end up on my bench. Mouthpipe venturi sizes, bore sizes, all of the quick and easy things at the start...and then I got into analyzing valve guide designs and other small things.

When my clients would come in saying they are having issues with their valves working 100% of the time, my first thoughts are to check (not in any particular order): the valve plating/finish; the valve OD/casing ID to get the in-between tolerances; the compression (helps me to determine if a higher viscosity oil is needed to fill in excess space between the pistons and casings); and also...the valve guide assembly.

What gets me sometimes is when clients stop in at the shop and tell me they just dropped ~$500-700 on a valve job...and their valves are still catching? I then check the valve guide assembly and sure enough, sometimes I get an immediate or direct visual cue like this in the picture link down below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hA24icj8aDng_F6W8xEW1SvkEw8vK5xC/view?usp=sharing

This is from a recently purchased new, professional Bb trumpet with brass valve guides installed (will not mention brand names here), and already the valve guides are rubbing on the inside walls of the valve spring barrel...on all four corners! [*The picture here is only showing one corner*]

Now, I wanted to mention this because I see this occur on many different brands and models of horns with internally sprung valve guide assemblies—with both brass and nylon valve guide materials (the brass does more damage by burnishing and wearing down on the spring barrel & valve guide, while the soft nylon cannot burnish the spring barrel but still wears down on the valve guide).

I bring all of this up because I wanted to develop a product that helps folks who struggle(d) with this issue, myself included. To overcome an industry "bottleneck" and to look back at the great designs from the past—like F.E. Olds & Sons, Buescher, Holton (Galaxy, ST550, etc.), King, C.G. Conn, F. Besson (prewar), and others.

My hope is to try and eliminate the big "what if's" of the trumpet's/cornet's/flugelhorn's overall mechanical functionality, like "what if during my playing the big solo tonight all of a sudden my valves start to stick and catch in the middle of the upstroke?" This ever happen to you, folks? Not fun, eh?

The priority here is being able to effortlessly express your sound and personality through your instrument, rather than fighting the instrument to work and function mechanically.

I hope all of this helps explain to you all where I come from on my EVGs, and all of the other things at Bájoc that I am continuing to develop.

P.S. I am looking to expand the EVGs to make them compatible with many other brands—like Martin (Committee), B&S (Challenger I/II; X-Line), and Besson (Sovereign/Prestige cornets & tenor horns, post 2011)...coming soon!

P.P.S. I do apologize for the long post, my bad!

I hope all of this finds you well, take care!

Jacob Hoskins, Proprietor
_________________
https://bajocmusic.com/

I am driven to work generously in the service of others' musical creativity.

Bájoc Music · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:38 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:44 am Post subject:

What makes them "ergonomic"?
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trickg · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:14 am Post subject:

Doug Elliott · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:33 am Post subject:

I'm always glad to see people improving things.
But one nit to pick: don't use the word "tolerance" when you really mean "clearance." A common mistake, but they are two very different things.

Bájoc Music · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:17 am Post subject:

Shews Blues · New Member Joined: 30 Mar 2017 Posts: 3 Location: Illinois

Bájoc Music

Shews Blues · New Member Joined: 30 Mar 2017 Posts: 3 Location: Illinois

Yes, it's up again!
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Riojazz · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:02 pm Post subject:

One upgrade to the site was adding more info on different supported brands. Also, in an email correspondence, I learned that the valve size is usually the same in individual manufacturers between cornet, flugelhorn and trumpet valves. Some possible exceptions.
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