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Thompson music price gouging in the wake ofVan Laar death


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Kaboom
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:36 am    Post subject: Thompson music price gouging in the wake ofVan Laar death Reply with quote

I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 trumpet that has been listed on Reverb for a few months.

I contacted Mike Thompson via Reverb yesterday to inquire of the trumpet was still available at the price of $2400 in change. While negotiating with him, I noticed that the trumpet price increased to just under $3000. When I confronted Mike about the price change, he indicated the change was because he was having lots of inquiries on the trumpet.

I found this really distasteful as he was taking advantage of the fact that Mr. Van Laar, I passed away and was getting more inquiries about the horn because of this, and decided to raise the price.

Just beware of dealing with Thompson music. They advertised price may not be the price..
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Thompson Music has removed all Van Laar instruments from their website.
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J. Landress Brass
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only official dealers of Van Laar in the US are myself, East Cost Trumpets and Bob Reeves. New Orleans trumpets was a dealer but the owner is now working for me. We are all saddened and shocked at Hub's passing and John, Mike and Ben were all extremely close to Hub and the Van Laar team
We have not increased our prices on Van Laar instruments short of a small price increase several months ago that was raised by Van Laar. the instruments I currently have in stock are likely to be the only ones I get for some time as the company will need to navigate their future with the unexpected passing of Hub.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few weeks ago I was happy with the transaction made with Thompson music. We spoke over the phone about potential horns and I settled on one and liked the price and got a good deal on the case also. It was not a trumpet made by the same manufacturer mentioned here, but I was happy with the price for what I got.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve been staying away from commenting on TH, but I’m making an exception: “price gouging” generally refers to when a seller drastically raises prices on necessities (fuel, food, water, etc.), especially in the wake of natural disasters. It does NOT apply to the price of something like a musical instrument. Even though we might sometimes believe otherwise, a trumpet is not essential to human survival.

I’ve dealt with Thompson music, never had any problems at all, but IMO it borders on slander to refer to this situation as “price gouging.”

Brad
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had dealings with Mike and have never had any issue with any transaction.

I can understand how disappointing it would be to see a large jump in asking price but I too don’t see this as price gouging. Especially since, as Brad pointed out, the term doesn’t normally apply to discretionary goods.

I see this more akin to pieces of art becoming more valuable when the artist dies. Or when a product reaches end of production, like Cadillac convertibles’ end of manufacturing, and people are willing to pay more to ensure they get one.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on my personal experience dealing with this store, I would not hesitate to do business with Mike in the future. I like Mike!
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loudog
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've known Mike for years. He's a great trumpet player, and a great businessman. I've bought and sold several horns over the years through him, and consider him "my guy." He's a man of integrity, and I'm happy to do business with him.
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP is not right of course, he could have accepted the offer earlier, every seller has the option to withdraw an offer as long as it is not accepted.
Much more interesting is what will happen with the brand Van Laar. But that’s now too early to discuss. And will the existing Van Laar horns turn into collector items? When they stopped producing Henri Selmer trumpets you could buy them from Thomann with a hefty discount, something like 1200 euros for a new Chorus. But I expect the Van Laars will be going up, in some way they are pieces of art.
Personally I feel really bad about the death of Hub van Laar. Though I never met him he must have been a great guy and I am also proud that he as a Dutch trumpet builder got worldwide recognition for his skills. And though I never have been a fan of the flügelhorn, I always had something in the back of my brains that one day I would Hub having made a B1 or Ack flügel for me, helas.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean by the same logic it's also a little opportunistic to suddenly plan to buy the instrument after the maker dies. I think a lot of people who may have been interested earlier are now wanting to add to their collection. This is also a weird time with prices--lots of costs going up, especially around manufacturing, shipping, etc.--and stores often change prices at the start of the year and after holiday sales end.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
…..This is also a weird time with prices--lots of costs going up, especially around manufacturing, shipping, etc.--and stores often change prices at the start of the year and after holiday sales end.


Absolutely agree. And even if the horn in question suddenly doubled in price, which it did not, that’s still not “price gouging”, it’s a TRUMPET, it’s not an essential commodity.

There’s a difference between free market prices and “price gouging.” We live in an age where a lot of people, and possibly the OP, seem to constantly be looking for the next thing to be offended or “victimized” by. And especially in this case, I think it’s ridiculous.

Brad
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just beware of dealing with Thompson music. They advertised price may not be the price..


If a horn is advertised for a particular price on Reverb and the seller refuses to sell it at that advertised price you should take it up with Reverb. If the seller changes the price and you don't want to pay the new price, that seems like a very different matter. In either case it is not price gouging.

I've been doing business with Thompson Music for years and always found Mike and his team to be totally above-board.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have to be careful of the implications and ramification with how you use your words. "Price Gouging" does refer to goods and services, but I think we all know what the OP was referring to. And it can be a dangerous accusation towards a merchant. I, personally, have had nothing but good, fair dealings with Thomson.
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Tpt_Guy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
I’ve been staying away from commenting on TH, but I’m making an exception: “price gouging” generally refers to when a seller drastically raises prices on necessities (fuel, food, water, etc.), especially in the wake of natural disasters. It does NOT apply to the price of something like a musical instrument. Even though we might sometimes believe otherwise, a trumpet is not essential to human survival.


I think the there are legal definitions of "price gouging" that might vary by locale. For example, in California it is specifically defined by the Office of the Attorney General as, "...[S]ellers trying to take unfair advantage of consumers during an emergency or disaster by greatly increasing prices for essential consumer goods and services." As such, there is a hard 10% cap on price increases during emergencies.

In all of the statutes I checked, one point they had in common was the jacking up of prices during and because of emergencies.

By contrast, Merriam-Webster defines it as, "charging customers too much money." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/price%20gouging

Dictionary.com lists it as, "an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging

Even dictionaries don't fully agree.

None of this game of semantics is to say the OP doesn't have a valid complaint. I made a similar comment to my wife when I learned Hub passed. I told her, "Wow, a great trumpet maker passed away. I guess I won't be able to afford one of his horns any time soon."

To be fair, my disappointment stems from me not taking the opportunity when I had the chance. I imagine that's probably the real source of the OP's irritation, as well.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tpt_Guy wrote:
Brad361 wrote:
I’ve been staying away from commenting on TH, but I’m making an exception: “price gouging” generally refers to when a seller drastically raises prices on necessities (fuel, food, water, etc.), especially in the wake of natural disasters. It does NOT apply to the price of something like a musical instrument. Even though we might sometimes believe otherwise, a trumpet is not essential to human survival.


I think the there are legal definitions of "price gouging" that might vary by locale. For example, in California it is specifically defined by the Office of the Attorney General as, "...[S]ellers trying to take unfair advantage of consumers during an emergency or disaster by greatly increasing prices for essential consumer goods and services." As such, there is a hard 10% cap on price increases during emergencies.

In all of the statutes I checked, one point they had in common was the jacking up of prices during and because of emergencies.

By contrast, Merriam-Webster defines it as, "charging customers too much money." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/price%20gouging

Dictionary.com lists it as, "an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging

Even dictionaries don't fully agree.

None of this game of semantics is to say the OP doesn't have a valid complaint. I made a similar comment to my wife when I learned Hub passed. I told her, "Wow, a great trumpet maker passed away. I guess I won't be able to afford one of his horns any time soon."

To be fair, my disappointment stems from me not taking the opportunity when I had the chance. I imagine that's probably the real source of the OP's irritation, as well.


As josh posted he did not mark up the trumpets on his site,s so if you want a trumpet visit jlandress.
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Last edited by chef8489 on Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, there is disagreement as to the definition.

“Dictionary.com lists it as, "an act or instance of charging customers too high a price for goods or services, especially when demand is high and supplies are limited." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/price-gouging

So who decides what is “too high”? Too high according to who, and for what?

I’m not trying to beat the proverbial deceased equine here, but I think the implications of the terms, especially in this case when referring to a company that many here have had good experiences with, are unfair at best.

Brad
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson music price gouging in the wake ofVan Laar deat Reply with quote

Kaboom wrote:
I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 trumpet that has been listed on Reverb for a few months.

I contacted Mike Thompson via Reverb yesterday to inquire of the trumpet was still available at the price of $2400 in change. While negotiating with him, I noticed that the trumpet price increased to just under $3000. When I confronted Mike about the price change, he indicated the change was because he was having lots of inquiries on the trumpet.

I found this really distasteful as he was taking advantage of the fact that Mr. Van Laar, I passed away and was getting more inquiries about the horn because of this, and decided to raise the price.

Just beware of dealing with Thompson music. They advertised price may not be the price..


I can't help but question the validity of this claim. I don't see any B2 trumpets listed on either Reverb or Thompson's site.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson music price gouging in the wake ofVan Laar deat Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
I can't help but question the validity of this claim. I don't see any B2 trumpets listed on either Reverb or Thompson's site.


Up near the top of this thread:

Goby wrote:
Looks like Thompson Music has removed all Van Laar instruments from their website.

I can’t help but question your questioning the OP’s story. After all, if the purveyor decides to remove product from a website it doesn’t negate the experience of someone who attempted to purchase said product.

Personally, I believe OP had a disappointing experience as described.

I also think if the story is accurate and the horn was currently listed at the lower price when negotiations began, and the price jumped during those discussions I too might be upset if I were the OP. Truth in advertising and all that jazz.

But one thing I am sure of, we will never know all of the unbiased details of this story.

Peace.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not doubting OP's story. Thompson music had a number of Van Laar instruments available on their website (both in stock and available for pre-order), and I recall that they had a "demo stock" B2 on their reverb page for 2400. I can't say if they raised the price prior to the news of Hub's passing, so I will reserve judgement on that aspect of the story, but I can totally empathize with OP. If they raised the price right after the news of Hub's passing, that's an opportunistic thing to do, but if they raised the price prior to the news, then I suppose it's just business.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson music price gouging in the wake ofVan Laar deat Reply with quote

Kaboom wrote:
I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 I just wanted to send this message out about experience I have recently had with Thompson music and trying to buy a Van Laar B2 trumpet that has been listed on Reverb for a few months.


The OP had been following the listing for a few months. He had plenty of time to buy the horn. He was probably waiting for the price to go down. Instead, it went up. Possibly related to the untimely passing of HVL. But this could have also made the OP decide to buy the trumpet. It is really a wash. Amazon raises and lowers it's prices as well. If you really want a horn you need to act on it since anything can happen while you are trying to decide.
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