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HELP! I'm having trouble already....


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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the book through last night + this morning. I finished with a few minutes to practice before church. I can do the lip clamp, and make it squeak, but once the mouthpiece goes on it feels so strange I can't get it to make any noise at all. If I REALLY REALLY push the air through a note comes through but I don't think it's above the staff even. It feels like I'm trying to blow with a vavle in backwards. It's like my lips are too rounded, and I have to put a lot of pressure on to get the mpc to seal around my lips.

When I do any type of squeaking without the mpc, the air tends to come out of two places, sometimes at different pitches(!), with no air coming through the exact middle. I can do the pedals, but I have a feeling I'm going to be progressing very slowly :

Any help would be *greatly* appreciated,

Bonnie
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oj
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie,

It is in a way good that you feel this. Go after this.
Suddenly a clear high pitch (G above staff or higher) will burst out. WHAM!
Then you have "found it". Be really patient about this. A great reward lay ahead of you.

Did you read the great story from Bert? If not, do that! Or if you have, read it again!
Click on this link to go directly there:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=15885&forum=29&4

Think about what he says:

But what learned is that high G is an EASY tone. Yes, it MUST be if an eleven year old can play it. And what's more, he did it with ease and with almost no mpc pressure.

What did this young student do? He just rolled in his lips compressed air and played. A high G (one octave above the one in R.I #1) He found his optimal lip position and he was able to compress the air. Simple as that.

In one of my recent posts, I told about a guy I met yesterday. He has played a lot of G's like in R.I. #1 - so he can play it. But that is not the point with R.I. as you already know. He and you need to find this much easier way of playing higher notes - a high note embouchure.

BE patient!
Develop R.O. etc, and keep experimenting with R.I. #1 Every new day when you are fresh, start with air squeek/air hiss and R.I. #1 (as Jeff said recently). Read all tips on this forum about R.I. etc.

Good luck!

Ole
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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh.....I'm glad to hear this is a normal difficulty. I will keep working on it!!!
Bonnie
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trumpetjunkie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeehaaaa, the adventure begins!

Whatever you do, ignore all feelings of hopelessness, discouragement, disilusion, and skepticism. Took me awhile to learn that... heh, next step.

Just keep re-reading the steps for the roll-in, and keep pluggin... there will be many "situations" were you wonder if your doing something wrong or this that and the other... just keep with the basics and keep pluggin and in most cases the "problem" will disapear in a few days... if it doesn't, then post here for advice. It usually takes a couple days to get a good feel for the roll-in.

Bury your fears, dive in, and have a blast! The results will come.
God bless,
~Kaleb
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Bob Cross
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Joined: 21 Jan 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie-
Don't worry about this at all since you just started BE. I started exactly the same way a couple months ago. Like you, the pedals came easily, but I could not get much sound on the roll in - nothing with the mp on my face (air out the sides). After a week, I could get a solid G on the roll in, but could not do anything with the mp on my face - had to start with a hiss and bring the mp to my face. Now I can start easily with a solid C with the mp on my face - can even get the occasional double C which I could not even think about before. I cannot play normally with the roll in embouchure, and I am not sure whether that is even a goal. I don't play anything that goes over high C, so my range has not gone up noticeably in normal play, but my comfort, controll, and flexibility within that range has improved more than I (or my instructor) could have believed possible.

I think the point of Jeff's system is to attempt and experience things that you haven't felt before. They will feel starnge and uncomfortable at first. Gradually you adapt, and things that felt foreign start feeling natural. The other thing I noticed was that my BE progress in doing the exercises seemed slow, but my everyday playing skyrocketed. Regardless of how you sound or how it feels, just keep doing the exercises.
Bob
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trumpetteacher1
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie,

My post may offend you. But, it is my intent to steer you into a better direction, rather than to criticize you. You'll just have to trust my intent. I can't be more sincere. Usage of language is extremely important, more than I can say at this time (need teachers manual!) Over the years, I discovered that WHAT the students say determines my approach in working with them. This, more than any other factor.

The title of your post, "HELP! I'm having trouble already," tells me that you will most likely fail at BE unless you change your mindset. At your stage of development, you don't need "help." You need to read the book more thoroughly, read the pertinent suggestions on this forum, and spend more time experiencing what the basic setup feels like.

You are not having "trouble." You are experiencing something totally different that what you have ever experienced. Do you know how many on this board have gone through EXACTLY what you are now experiencing? Rather than offer sympathy, most of those veterans - remember, they've been there, done that - will tell you to to find some patience somewhere, do a little experimenting, keep reading, and keep doing the exercises.

I'll add this (which I'm repeating from another thread!) - don't attempt too much too soon. Do the lip clamp once or twice a day, but not before you play. Do the squeak throughout the day. If you decide to put the horn to your lips, at first go for an air hiss. Forget about getting a pitch. Just get a good air hiss through the horn, without collapsing the whole setup. If everything is set up correctly, the pitch will eventually come.

Realize that this may need to be done in baby steps, and may take time. Be extremely careful about knee-jerking that something is wrong. You've had the book one day!!! Development takes time. And, many things will CHANGE as you go through stages of development. The setup you "find" today may be totally different that the one you use 6 months from now.

If you have specific questions (after sufficient personal experience) please email me. You need to rely on yourself, and get used to thinking like that. Nobody else will be able to do this for you.

I truly hope that my comments have not offended.

Jeff
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mcamilleri
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pray every time you play - God has a special place for trumpet players, just read what he has them doing in the Bible!

Michael
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TXBD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie,

I just came in from church & read your post. You're already getting some solid advice, even from Jeff himself. Anything I could write would simply echo what has already been written. I will emphasize the importance of being patient. If you have a bad day down the line after seeing some progress with BE, take a day off. I've found that doing BE with a day of rest works better for me. Finally, read the book, then do what you read. Jeff did not write this book with any hidden meanings or secrets. It is crystal clear. Jeff means what he writes (and says), which is what I like about the book so much. I'm confident you will see improvement in both your BE work and your regular playing. Best of luck and God bless!

Billy Marquis
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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are absolutely right Mr. Smiley, however I think it could be rephrased as "I'm having difficulty". Since I really have a feeling this will work, I'm going to keep working as long as it takes. I'm just having one of those 'days', caused by a variety of things. I suppose I'm very impatient. Almost every instrument I've set out to play just 'worked' for me. If I don't play it well, and it takes too much time to become accustomed to it I just figure I should work on the things that come faster. I know this is a fault, but I'm pretty sure (as far as I remember) trumpet didn't really click with me. It did at first, but then I came to a standstill (where I am now). Trumpet holds some allure that most instruments don't, and I don't know what it is, but I like it enough to work at it.

I'll keep trying....

tired, depressed, frustrated (generally),

Bonnie
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I had a head start on the squeak. My buddies and I used to use it as a sound effect while talking " I drank that 7th beer, crawled to the bathroom and "squeak" , but I remember clearly when I was first starting the roll ins that I really felt in my abdomen. I was squeezing much harder than I was used to. I still feel it in my gut but now I'm used to it.

Jerry Freedman
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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just hit a G above high C about 1/2 hour ago. I couldn't believe it! I guess I just gotta keep tweaking it....

Bonnie
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mcamilleri
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See what happens when you pray and play...

Michael
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By jove, I think she's got it!

Bonnie, it'll take a while to settle down and become reliable. Just keep experimenting and doing the excercises. Be patient and give you lips time to settle in.

Dave
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oj
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie,

Great if you already found it! A thing you can do to further develop this roll-in feeling, is to also use it on the R.O exercises.
How?
Well. when you do the octave test, roll-in lips (almost like when doing R.O. #1). Try to play C in staff and low C with this setting. It feels strange at first, but suddenly your low C will have more "core". Do it on all 7 combinations, down to low F#.

I came to think of this the other day, when I met the guy I mentioned above. When he tried R.O. #2 he told me he could not keep the roll-in when going (dragging the roll-in) down below E to C, G and low C. I then asked him to play the C in staff as he would do on the G in R.O. #1. He did. Surprise, surprise, a sound with more "core" popped out of his horn!

Ole
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trumpetjunkie
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OJ,
I can play low c and middle c as you described with a roll-in feeling and do it alright, but tounging and control are somewhat sluggish... and the tone isn't better. But it is always improving... Am I too rolled in there?
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oj
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonnie,

Good to hear that you get roll-in "rolling"

I'm not going to give you an answers to your last question.
(You have to find the answer yourself - "Be your own teacher")

Instead let me ask some questions:

How long have you been playing trumpet?
Do you have a teacher?
Are you playing in bands, orchestra, etc.?

Have you read the chapter in BE about the indirect method ?

Ole
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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've got me mixed up with trumpetjunkie

Bonnie
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oj
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops, sorry....

Still - perhaps both you and he (or she?) could answer some of the questions, I put in there?

O.J.
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_dcstep
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow the book, use the CD, take your time.
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trumpetplayer87
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sure.

I've been playing for 4 years or so. I've only played seriously in the past year. My range has always been exceptionally bad, only in the past year have I been able to hit a high C. My tone usually makes up for range, but if I don't practice enough the tone goes right down the drain.

Yes and no, I do have a teacher but hardly ever see him. It's more of a casual thing, he sees me once every few months or if I have an audition coming or something.

Right now there aren't any bands in my area to play in. However, in May-August two community bands start up, which means 3 nights a week of playing time.

Bonnie
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