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Bob5610 Regular Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Posts: 32 Location: Hoboken, NJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:16 pm Post subject: Lotus Mouthpieces |
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I'm sure this has been discussed before, but what are your feelings on the Lotus mouthpieces? Those of you that have tried them of course.
Bob _________________ Live Long and Prosper |
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Ronnman Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019 Posts: 404 Location: SE Louisiana
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, (Get on board little children) and there is room for many a more . |
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HowardB993 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Saginaw, MI
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm about a month into mine, and having really good success with them. Coming off of Monette Classic Resonance B6 line, so playing the Lotus 3 line right now. Have the 3XL2 in bronze, 3L2 in brass, 3M in brass, 3XS in nickel. Also picked up a FL3L in brass.
I like the intonation, and I believe more core to my sound - but again I'm still in my honeymoon phase - hoping it gets better and better. _________________ Bill Howard - Saginaw, MI
Yamaha 8335LA Gen2
Yamaha 8335RG Xeno
Van Laar Chuck Findley
Van Laar Oiram Fresu Flugel
Yamaha 6445 C-Trumpet
Kanstul 731 Cornet |
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The Lip 81 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:05 am Post subject: |
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I'm currently test driving a few pieces in the 2 line (all brass), the 2L2, 2M, and 2XL. I'm mostly gravitating toward the 2L2. The 2M produces a slightly brighter tone and is a fire-breather if you step on the gas, and the sound I get with the 2XL is like bathing in chocolate. The comparisons on their website seem to be spot on, and it's obvious everyone at Lotus sincerely wants to make great equipment. I'm admittedly in the honeymoon phase and still getting used to the slotting and playing tendencies of these mouthpieces, again, with the 2L2 being a clear favorite of mine and a few others who have listened to me play it. With the price point of Lotus mouthpieces being relatively low compared to prestige brands, I definitely recommend taking one for a spin. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8964 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Mine sits in the closet.
Google Search _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 850 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I just swapped off Lotus pieces as I was having issues with them. I loved them when I was not tired, but hit a wall when tired and couldnt play above c when tired. So after playing on them for quite some time I switched to Karl Hammond pieces. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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ALETRUMPET Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 79
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:22 am Post subject: |
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I have 2....in the closet |
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The Lip 81 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:22 am Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | I just swapped off Lotus pieces as I was having issues with them. I loved them when I was not tired, but hit a wall when tired and couldnt play above c when tired. So after playing on them for quite some time I switched to Karl Hammond pieces. |
It's interesting that you mention the feeling of hitting a wall when tired, because I've encountered the same phenomenon with the 2L2 during a couple of taxing rehearsals. I'm curious whether it's the mouthpiece or just my old habits kicking in when I'm tired conflicting with it. I'm going to keep working with it, but I have switched back to my Shew Jazz until after an upcoming performance to avoid chops confusion. Well... to avoiding making my normal level of chops confusion worse during a concert. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2020 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Had a 3S in nickel silver. Looked great, sounded great but didn’t care for the rim, quite sharp and not very comfortable. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry |
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HowardB993 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Saginaw, MI
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Anybody know or can talk about mpc gap and Lotus mpcs? I’ve played Stomvi mpcs in the past and still have hung on to one mpc (their rendition of the Shew Lead), and have most of the couplers. I can hear and feel a difference when I try different couplers. What makes Lotus mpcs, and Monette mpcs for that matter, work so much better than mass produced mpcs (or so they claim)?? _________________ Bill Howard - Saginaw, MI
Yamaha 8335LA Gen2
Yamaha 8335RG Xeno
Van Laar Chuck Findley
Van Laar Oiram Fresu Flugel
Yamaha 6445 C-Trumpet
Kanstul 731 Cornet
Last edited by HowardB993 on Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TrumpetMadness Regular Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2012 Posts: 36
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:21 am Post subject: |
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HowardB993 wrote: | What makes Lotus mpcs, and Monette mpcs for that matter, work so much better than mass produced mpcs (or so they claim)?? |
This will sound sarcastic but it is not, it’s great marketing and the placebo effect. It is very well documented that consumers will find more expensive items to have higher perceived positive effects and higher quality. This can apply to everything from medicine to luxury goods.
Lotus is also the first time a good (not great) mouthpiece has had an excellent marketing team behind it. Monette is the pioneered this marketing style of play test videos BUT they are a little behind the times and their most successful stuff has been YouTube videos. Lotus has taken that to the next level by modernizing it for instagram.
I assure there is nothing revolutionary or secret about Lotus mouthpieces. They are pretty good if you like that style but listening to Adam extol the logic and physics defying qualities of their mouthpieces (and trumpets) turns me off completely. The reality is, no mouthpiece or trumpet is perfectly in tune. If Monette was ACTUALLY better, the trumpet world would have figured it out by now. Why aren’t more people playing them? Lotus is a cool fad but nothing revolutionary. |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 641
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:19 am Post subject: |
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It's not all marketing (but the term for things like these are Veblen Goods). Lotus, Monette, and other manufacturers really do have new technology behind their mouthpieces. Before Monette shortened the overall length of their Bb trumpet mouthpieces, almost every mouthpiece measured approximately 3.45" long, including the big makers like Bach as well as custom makers like Al Cass and Charlie Allen. Miles Davis famously used the Heim 2 mouthpiece, but not many people know that his piece was "short shanked", roughly 1/4" shorter than a traditional mouthpiece. The shorter overall length of the mouthpiece obviously changed the feel in a way that he liked, and this shorter overall length is something that a lot of manufacturers are using today. On top of that, advances in technology like CAD modeling and CNC machinery allow mouthpieces to be made much more precisely than they were even 30 years ago. This level of control over machines allows designers to refine their designs and do much more precise experimentation, not to mention the prototyping process is almost instantaneous. Combine this ability to experiment with great players, and you have a recipe for some great mouthpiece designs. Almost every piece in the Bach catalog was copied from a famous trumpet player's personal mouthpiece in the early-mid 20th century, so this formula for trumpet mouthpiece design does have historical precedence.
Now, is there anything about a Monette mouthpiece that makes it worth $400? That depends on what the player can get out of it. They obviously do not have the economy of scale that Bach or Yamaha has, and as such their pieces will cost more to produce, not to mention the fact that their employees are paid well and they make everything in the US, which factors into the final cost. If the benefits outweigh the price tag, it is simply a business expense for the player using that equipment. Personally, I do not play Monette or Lotus pieces, but I have in the past, and I think their claims are mostly true about their mouthpieces having different intonation tendencies than standard "traditional" mouthpieces. There is no such thing as "perfect" intonation, but there is room for improvement, and I think Monette, Lotus, AR, BestBrass, Stomvi, Pickett etc. have all improved on historical designs. The viral marketing is a bit over-the-top, but I can't blame mouthpiece makers for using social media to grow their business, especially when their products can help people.
It is very hard to quantify what is "better" in the music world. For the principal trumpet player looking to recreate the sound of the Chicago Symphony in the 1950's, it doesn't make sense to play an avant-garde horn like a Monette. For the improvising musician looking for new sounds, it doesn't make sense to play a C trumpet and 1.5C mouthpiece. The other thing to note is that section playing still makes up a majority of professional work, and if you're playing a mouthpiece that is more true to a tuner but differs from the trumpet section, you are the one who is out of tune. There are plenty of people buying and playing Monette, Lotus, etc. mouthpieces, so it's a bit silly to say "why isn't everyone" playing them, especially when most top professionals do play on some sort of custom mouthpiece.
It certainly seems like shorter mouthpieces are here to stay, given the popularity of al the different brands making some variant of this design. My prediction is that smaller throats will come back into fashion (in some ways they already are with Lotus' HC series). Trumpet design seems to be trending back towards light-weight instruments, especially from custom builders, so I anticipate brighter sounding mouthpieces will become more popular to match these horns. |
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The Lip 81 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:17 am Post subject: |
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HowardB993 wrote: | What makes Lotus mpcs, and Monette mpcs for that matter, work so much better than mass produced mpcs (or so they claim)?? |
I can't comment on the gap, but shortening the overall length and altering interior shape of a mouthpiece changes tendencies in tone, intonation, projection, and slotting. This has been known for a long time, but Dave Monette has been the most successful in researching and developing a line of mouthpieces to take advantage of these effects so far. My experiences with both Monette and Lotus mouthpieces is that the Lotus doesn't seem to lock in its scale as rigidly as the Monette- probably by design- but both are designed to take advantage of the more consistent slotting their design approaches allow.
The answer to whether this makes a Lotus mouthpiece better than another brand is, I'm afraid, unsatisfying because it depends entirely on the player. Some will take to them really well, some will dislike them, and many will land somewhere in the middle. |
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nick8801 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2009 Posts: 174 Location: NJ
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Just want to point out that a Lotus mouthpiece isn't nearly as expensive as a Monette. While they're not as cheap as a Bach, they do kind of fall in line with other boutique makers products. As far as hitting a wall on them, I'll share my experience since playing their stuff a few months ago. I'd been playing AR for the last few years, and as I do, I got curious about the Lotus stuff. Ordered a few pieces to try out and just like almost any new mouthpiece, we had a great honeymoon phase. So much so, that I decided to sell my AR stuff and use the Lotus instead. Then it happened. One day I just couldn't play. Like my chops felt foreign. I decided that I probably shouldn't be trying to play 2 or 3 different sizes at once, especially after switching from a different brand. I didn't want to quit on the Lotus though because it was really special those first couple weeks. So, I decided to keep my favorite, a 3XL2B, and just play that one. After about 3 weeks of fundamentals and some light gigging, I finally started to feel at home on it. I think with any new mouthpiece, you kind of have to go through that process. At least I do. So, now about a month into rebuilding my embouchure, I think this piece is a keeper. I actually hit way less of a wall on it than I did on any of my older pieces. Maybe it's the open design, but when I get tired and tend to tense up, the open feel helps me relax and keep the air flowing. On older tighter pieces I had, the mouthpiece would back up on me after a while. Is any mouthpiece magic? No way. But I do find after years and years of play and practice that I know what I want in a mouthpiece, and sometimes trying stuff out and tweaking what I use helps me get closer to that elusive perfect feel and tone thing. At the moment that happens to be on this Lotus piece. |
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ENINCA Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 184 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:45 pm Post subject: Lotus |
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I've been playing Lotus trumpet and flugel mouthpiece for about 10 months. I absolutely love them. I'm playing the 3XL bronze for trumpet. Very warm beautiful tone and super comfortable rim. The crazy thing is, as deep as the XL cup is, I really don't lose any range at all. I'm not a high range player, but upper register intonation is great with this MP even with the deep cup. That's always been the main deal breaker for me using other deep cup mouthpieces.
And I wouldn't say these are expensive mouthpieces. I've seen many used ones in the $100 range. I think I paid $130. I've played GR, Monette, ACB and I really think Lotus are the best I've ever played. _________________ "Some days you get up and put the horn to your chops and it sounds pretty good and you win. Some days you try and nothing works and the horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins." -Dizzy Gillespie |
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dizzy4pres New Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2023 Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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I've recently bought a 7S and 7L (both in brass) and have used both for about a week. (bought direct from Thomann and they arrived quickly). My aim was to start using exactly the same rim on my lead and normal piece so switching was more consistent.
The 7 to me feels a little wider than I was expecting. The rims are comfortable, with very little "bite".
I immediately loved the 7L and had a very succesful gig on it. Found it pretty easy playing up to a high G even when playing for an hour.
The 7S I had less success with. I struggled to get my attacks to dig in and switched back to my regular lead piece.
I may stick with just using the 7L but I might try the 9 series. |
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acritzer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 827 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I have been playing a 3L bronze as my main piece for a while now and really enjoy it. As others have said there is no perfect mouthpiece, but it does seem to help some intonation issues with the upper register, and overall it is quite comfortable.
Having recently shifted into some different types of playing I ordered a 3L nickel. It's amazing the difference between the two materials. The nickel is much better suited to the new setting and it's very easy to switch back and forth depending on the music. |
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Egghead New Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2023 Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Since this past December, I switched to the Lotus 1L2 and also have a 1M.
Hands down this is the best playing decision I had ever made. I have struggled to find pieces that met the requirements I had. It was always more cup depth for tone and accuracy but way less range or more range and flexibility with way less tone and accuracy.
I had stumbled upon videos of Adam Rapa promoting these, but like any player promoting their own merch, I took it with a grain of salt. I eventually felt persuaded enough by the success stories to give it a shot. My goodness was it amazing. It was the hardest week of playing I ever had. I felt like this mouthpiece was the biggest trick ever it worked for 5 minutes and then I was rendered useless. I then started to read others experiences and they felt similarly. I found that it is imperative to focus on playing where the mouthpiece sits resonant without that the mouthpiece is impossible to use. It is very similar to the feeling of playing on a c trumpet for the first time and dying immediately because you are playing so off-center and inefficiently.
I found that sitting with a tuner and doing bends was a must for me. Within a week I had it mostly down and was able to be screaming out double G's and the like on the 1L2 which is essentially a 1 1/2 C so in terms of efficiency it is phenomenal.
Now on the business side and customer service side, I will be the first to admit the wait wasn't great. It can be hard to get a hold of Charles as well. However, when I did get a hold of him, he was so useful and amazing to work with.
Overall I loved my experience and will be buying a lead piece soon. I hope to buy one of their horns eventually fingers crossed. I 1000% recommend anyone borrow from a friend and find out if they love it and then go crazy. I love and support what Lotus is doing _________________ Strad 43 LR
Yammaha C 8445 |
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ericmpena Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 Posts: 254 Location: Kyle, TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I haven’t had great experiences so far with Lotus mouthpiece or horns.
So far I’ve tested the 1XL Bronze, 1XL, 1XL2, 1L, 2XL, and 2XL2.
I played a Bach 1 for 10+ years and currently use an ACB 0B.
Bach and ACB play the most in tune, with Bach having more secure slotting. Bach also has more pronounced articulations, but the ACB isn’t far behind it.
Lotus, for me, offers zero benefits over my other mouthpieces. Tuning is worse. Slotting is worse. Articulations are worse. And the tone is worse.
Guess they’re just not a good fit for me or my horn. It sucks because I really wanted to like their mouthpieces. _________________ Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/ |
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