To freak or not to freak

number juan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Dec 2015 Posts: 44

Do you think some people are just freaks at playing high, or do you think they just happened to learn to play with their lips in the perfect place for developing an extreme register? So natural gift, or just luck?

falado · Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:24 am Post subject:

It's practice, how you practice, when you practice, how much you practice, and learning to use your air, etc. Having a good, and the right, teacher helps too. No secret, just like the virtuoso, they have to work at it too. GI GO, garbage in garbage out. You get out of it what you put into it. I got more range when I got the right teacher. After that, and if you really want it, it's the time you put in. A good lead player has the lead player mentality. If you practice 1 hr. a day and expect to be THE lead player, you will have trouble. Natural ability is fine, but you still have to work. It's playing right and the right way. Read books by Roger Ingram, Claude Gordor, Bill Knivitt, and John Lynch. Oh, almost forgot, look up Lynn Nicholson, he's got some stuff he put out recently. You will find many things in common like working properly and using the tongue and air properly, practice, and rest.

I can play high notes when needed, I'm not an extreme player and most of my work is high E and below. But these freaks of nature, practice to be that way. Anyway, this is what I have read and observed and I have worked with some great lead players and have heard them practice, practice, practice.

Just some thought, Dave
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falado · Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:40 am Post subject:

I forgot to add listening to those that do it. Check some of the YouTube clinics too.

Dave
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FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet

Craig Swartz · Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:41 am Post subject:

I believe your assumption that some players "just happened to learn to play with their lips in the perfect place" is a huge simplification of playing the instrument at all, but especially in the higher register. So much more emphasis needs to be placed on proper breathing- air in, efficiently-directed wind out. There are many types of embouchure sets but the common denominator to playing, regardless of set, mouthpiece or instrument is the free and uninterrupted flow of air to produce and move the pulsations. And there are an almost infinite number of ways in which individuals can restrict that flow without realizing it.

Turkle · Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:52 am Post subject:

When I was young, I had a natural high register. Never had to work on it.

Now that I'm in my 30's, I find that I have to practice my high register if I'm going to be able to use it on the gig.
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MF Fan · Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:35 am Post subject:

Being able to play accurately and musically in the upper register is a skill that requires practice, however I believe some are born with certain physical attributes that make it easier in the beginning. It's a hotly contested topic, but I think dental structure is a big part of it. How else do you explain guys like Wayne Bergeron that could "play" double C's at the age of 12? Others like Maynard, Jon Faddis, Roger Ingram, etc. all had exceptional ranges by the time they were in their early teens. The key to their success however was the amount of practice they applied on top of their physical gifts. I also agree that the average person without the ideal physical attributes can learn to play in the upper register, it just takes more time and effort than those that won the lottery with a natural set-up.
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rebus9 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 76

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

TrumpetBoy907 · Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:42 pm Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

Some players have a natural advantage in producing the high register due to mechanical advantages inherent in their physiology. We've all known "freaks" who seem to be able to easily produce isolated high notes outside of a musical context. That being said, no player becomes accomplished in producing the high register in a highly accurate and consistent way within a musical context without an extensive amount of practice.
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MF Fan · Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:30 pm Post subject:

rebus9 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 76

TrumpetMD · Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject:

MF Fan · Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:54 pm Post subject:

I have a similar structure on my bottom teeth. I had my dentist (a fellow trumpet player) take the sharp edge off the protruding tooth. I also had him bevel/round the lower edge of my two center top teeth, all of which reduced the gouging on the inside of my lips when I'm playing hard. Took 30 seconds during a routine check-up. Everyone is different, but it helped me.
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eviln3d · Regular Member Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 55

When I started playing trumpet I could hit a g above high c in the first week playing... I think it was because I started trumpet at an older age and had been a flute and piccolo player for several years before so I had very good breathing and well developed muscles in my embouchure from playing a flute and piccolo... I don't think it is freakish to play high notes.

I just don't think some people ever really develop the right muscles in their mouth. Probably in some instances it is because they developed a habit of just using more pressure against their mouth with the horn to get a sound early on and if that's what you do there is a limit to how hard you can pressure the mouthpiece and how high you will ever get from playing that way.

I think anyone can develop a high range if they approach it the right way.

rebus9 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 76

eviln3d · Regular Member Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 55

NYC-player · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Jun 2016 Posts: 627

I firmly believe a few things about high chops:

You "discover" high chops. You don't build strength. Total myth. You might build endurance from repetition but you don't build muscle for high notes.

Once you have "muscle memory" you know where the notes sit. How to fix your chops, tongue, compression, and channel you air ....personal journey you gave to find for yourself.

Resistance and compression are good things.

Big lung capacity, more air, yoga breath....all unnecessary or overrated.

Less is more.

Relax.

NYC-player · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Jun 2016 Posts: 627

omelet · Veteran Member Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245

Had a friend in middle school. He got braces about 8th grade. He never had super high chops. Got rid of the braces and within months could scream double Cs. This to me is good evidence that the dental structure can be a help in producing these notes.