Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Posts: 345 Location: London, Canada
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 10:40 am Post subject: Wanted Cootie Sounding Practice Mute ??
I have been watching some videos alluding to Cootie Williams from Duke Ellington's orchestra. I'm told he used a plunger on top of a practice mute. Can anyone tell me what mutes exactly would create that gravelly , growling sound ? I see some practice mutes on ebay and some are crazy cheap. Needless to say, the question that comes to mind is 'are they any good though ' ?
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:10 am Post subject:
This will refer to a mute unlike what we think of as a practice mute nowadays. Most, if not all, modern practice mutes are designed to be much quieter and will be hopeless for performing with a plunger. Nowadays mutes suitable for use under a plunger are generally known as pixie mutes. I think this term originated with Humes & Berg. The H&B Pixie looks similar to the old Conn 'practice mute', which may well have been what Cootie Williams used. It's particularly challenging to get good results with though. I've never tried an original Conn so can't comment on whether they're any more user friendly.
One of the better options is to use an Eb trumpet straight mute. I have a Denis Wick one that's pretty good as long as it's used with a big enough plunger.
Bear in mind that while the pixie really brings it to life, the growl comes from the player, and the plunger technique is a huge part of the overall effect.
Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Posts: 345 Location: London, Canada
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:43 am Post subject:
Mike Prestage wrote:
.. mutes suitable for use under a plunger are generally known as pixie mutes. I think this term originated with Humes & Berg. The H&B Pixie looks similar to the old Conn 'practice mute'
Mike
Right you are Sir on all counts. He did use an old Conn Practice Mute and it was referred, in the video I saw, as a Pixie mute. There are of course a lot of H&B mutes with Pixie in their name. I think the one you refer to is the 112. If you would happen to know the model number of the Eb mute by Wick, you referred to, that would be awesome. I'm also wondering whether there are any photos out there of the original (early) Conn practice mutes ?
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:35 pm Post subject:
It might be difficult to find an actual sink plunger that's a good size and shape to use with the Eb mute but there are some very deep purpose-made plunger mutes. The Denis Wick aluminium plunger works surprisingly well with it.
H&B did make a fibre pixie, like a miniature version of their straight mutes. I think they're discontinued now and the one time I tried one it seemed pretty awful! AFAIK all the other H&B pixie variants are just the same Conn-style mute in different colours.
Interesting to see that - I didn't know they existed. FWIW it's a different thing to the Conn - it looks more like another archaic style of mute sometimes known as a 'long pixie', which Jon-Erik Kellso can be seen using jn some photos/videos. I have one (maker unknown but very old) and it's my personal favourite pixie. If the Kellso mute plays similarly, it might be the best readily available pixie there is.
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Wanted Cootie Sounding Practice Mute ??
Abraxas wrote:
I have been watching some videos alluding to Cootie Williams from Duke Ellington's orchestra. I'm told he used a plunger on top of a practice mute. Can anyone tell me what mutes exactly would create that gravelly , growling sound ? I see some practice mutes on ebay and some are crazy cheap. Needless to say, the question that comes to mind is 'are they any good though ' ?
Kelso pixie matched with a plunger of your choice.
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The KR Indigo plunger (especially the @Max@ version) can be used with a lot of standard straight mutes - which generally have better intonation than the pixie or Eb straights...
I have A/B tested one against my authentic 1920's metal pixie and this is as close as you'll get without paying several hundreds of gig monies to buy an original.
How close? If I didn't already have a 1920's mute I'd get one myself.
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:45 pm Post subject:
Here's another terrific use of a plunger over something of a "Pixie" mute by Clyde McCoy. It's known that he used an odd mute and plunger.
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A slight twist on this… can anyone recommend an actual practise mute which will fit under a plunger so I can practise? Maybe the Wallace compact though that apparently sends the horn a quarter tone sharp. _________________ Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign Studio / Lotus 2XL B
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2158 Location: Little Elm, TX
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:11 pm Post subject:
Monosect wrote:
A slight twist on this… can anyone recommend an actual practise mute which will fit under a plunger so I can practise? Maybe the Wallace compact though that apparently sends the horn a quarter tone sharp.
What a sound Cootie has ! No one else sounds like that. It has always amazed me about how every good player has their own recognizable sound, yet they are sooooo different from each other.
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