Mouthpiece gap?

kehaulani · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:03 am Post subject: Mouthpiece gap?

At what point does needing a mouthpiece gap adjustment become noticeable?

I've played enough horns as-is to know they don't usually need a gap adjustment. At least you don't think they do.

What lets you know that maybe it's something to look into?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

JayKosta · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:41 am Post subject:

Measure the gap, if it is about 3/16 inch (5mm) or less then start doing the 'strip of paper around the shank' to increase the gap, and test intonation, sound quality, responsiveness, etc. at steps of increased gap. At some point you might notice an improvement or a degradation from the no-strip position.

If increased gap steps never give an improvement, then either the gap is fine as-is, or might be better if reduced. But reducing gap requires not-easily-undone mechanical changes.

BEFORE tinkering with gap verify valve alignment is producing 'good sound' with all valve combinations, and check for air leaks at water keys.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

kehaulani · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:22 am Post subject:

I know all that. What I'm asking is what practical (not theoretical) experience would get you to doing that in the first place?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

cheiden · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:18 am Post subject:

In my case it was because I was trying to evaluate a Schilke Symphony piece and it seemed to bottom out (no gap). I found another online already cut for sleeves and then found someone parting with a good number of sleeves. In a few days' time I learned how consequential the gap could be.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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kehaulani · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:44 am Post subject:

An aside: Not quibbling, just want to understand the terminology. I thought to "bottom out" was when the lips protrude too much (or the mouthpiece cup is too short) so that the lips touch the bottom of the mouthpiece cup.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

3bflat · Regular Member Joined: 28 Apr 2017 Posts: 26

JayKosta · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:26 pm Post subject:

abontrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1769

cheiden · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:37 pm Post subject:

jvf1095 · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337

Jay, how does one go about measuring the gap?

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:23 am Post subject:

jvf1095 · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337

Thanks Jay. (BTW...Difference is 1/4 inch).

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:20 am Post subject:

It all depends on how well it works - good sound, intonation, centering, etc. is the goal, not a particular number.

Maybe compare with other mpc that you already have.

If something about the 'working' is not good, then there are many factors to consider in addition to gap: mouthpiece choice (throat, backbore, cup), valve alignment, water key leak, needs cleaning, etc.

If there is not a 'problem', then don't create one by trying to fix something that is OK as-is.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:31 am Post subject:

Vin DiBona · Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:35 am Post subject:

I was a GR dealer for 10 years. GR himself told me this GAP information.

https://www.grmouthpieces.com/category-s/244.htm

It can get more complicated than one thinks.

R. Tomasek

jvf1095 · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337

True Jay. All seems to be ok. Thanks Kehaulani & thanks too Vin. I'm going to check those sites out.

yourbrass · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Mouthpiece gap?

jvf1095 · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337

Tricky! I'm thinking, in a sense that once you turn down the shank; that's that! As opposed to trying out a sleeve to lengthen the gap. It's sort of like cutting a piece of wood. Cut it to long, you can correct it. Cut it to short??? I'm thinking the paper trick can give you clues on a longer gap aspect. Maybe if it gets worse the further out you go, perhaps going shorter than where you started might give you what you want? I guess if you have mouthpieces you want to "sacrifice" it's an interesting experiment! Reading through the sites suggested in this post, I believe most players prefer a gap around 3/16 to 1/4 if I read that right?

yourbrass · Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:07 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject:

You cut down the Backbore or the Shank?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn