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Didymus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:23 pm    Post subject: Horizons Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Doug Elliott wrote:
How about . . Embouchure to mouthpiece = feet to shoes

And they both use tongues.


LOL.
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same Old Mouthpiece Paradigm. Individuals physical make-up and physiology is just that ... individual. What fits perfect for one will not fit perfect for another. That's why there are different sizes of mouthpieces, shirts, pants, shoes ad nauseum
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Last edited by RussellDDixon on Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the shoes analogy is that it assumes some direct physical connection between the player and the diameter of the mouthpiece. Maybe such a connection exist but for the moment being we don't know which parameters to measure let alone judge them.
And even when after some development we are able to understand such a connection it will not help. Why?

Because the physical shape of the player is just one factor in choosing a mouthpiece. I know plenty of players who don't play the mouthpiece that plays easiest but they play the mouthpiece that fits the best in their job (sound, range, projection). Let's say, just a little bit harder work for a better result.
To give an example, I think that the right diameter of a mouthpiece for Cat Anderson would be in the Bach 1 to 1 1/4 range. But his function in the Duke Ellington Orchestra made that he played something at the other side of the mouthpiece range spectrum.

And then we only talk about diameter sec, after that we have to discuss cup shape, cup depth, rim form and more for we land on the right mouthpiece size. And what are we going to do with the measured parameters for different instruments: trombone, tuba mouthpieces? Did we measure them also or do we have to start all over again?

Shortly: mouthpiece size determination is so complicated that it's not fair to compare it with shoe sizes, T-shirt size, blue jean size and so on. It's only a very rough simplification with no practical use.
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Irving
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher used to use the shoe analogy. When you are trying on shoes, you already have an idea of your size more or less. If you try on a pair, and they don't feel comfortable, then they are not for you, even though you might like them. Comfort comes first. Same with a mouthpiece. If it feels uncomfortable, then don't use it. With all of the mouthpieces out there you can find one that is comfortable. If no mouthpiece is comfortable, then son, you've got a problem. Granted amouthpiece might feel comfortable at first, and then you realize that it isn't for you. But if it feels bad right away, then keep looking.
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the analogy is about ‘feeling comfortable’?
Like you said, you have an idea of the size, if the mp feels nevertheless still uncomfortable it can’t be the size. BTW a mp can feel uncomfortable by a lot of reasons.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know plenty of players who don't play the mouthpiece that plays easiest but they play the mouthpiece that fits the best in their job (sound, range, projection).


Also, in general, mouthpieces are never uncomfortable. Your approach to that mouthpiece may be wrong at that moment. After adapting, it becomes comfortable. We tend to think of finding mouthpieces to adapt to our approach, when really the above quote says it all. It is the best mouthpiece for the job and then we adapt and make it work.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the sense that the aptness of the shoe analogy depends upon the level of detail to which you take it. At a high level, it makes some sense, but if you dive into certain details, it doesn't work as well. From Delano's point of view, the level at which it works is "only a very rough simplification with no practical use." YMMV, as they say.

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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Also, in general, mouthpieces are never uncomfortable.

I respectfully submit that this mouthpiece, specifically at least, is uncomfortable:


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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man oh man, do I ever gret starting this thread.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
Man oh man, do I ever gret starting this thread.



You know what they say -- "If the shoe fits . . ."
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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always took the shoe analogy as ‘people are different and what works for one person may not work for another’, and not much more than that.
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delano
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you can say that, the shoe analogy makes that not easier or better understandable.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG OMG OMG! I just got the insight of a lifetime!

In Holland, if the shoe analogy works at all, it only works for wooden mouthpieces.
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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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stuartissimo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
OMG OMG OMG! I just got the insight of a lifetime!

In Holland, if the shoe analogy works at all, it only works for wooden mouthpieces.

Dude, that’s terrible
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stuartissimo wrote:
Halflip wrote:
OMG OMG OMG! I just got the insight of a lifetime!

In Holland, if the shoe analogy works at all, it only works for wooden mouthpieces.

Dude, that’s terrible


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"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
Man oh man, do I ever gret starting this thread.

Isn't TH fun, Jim?!
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually. 😊
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