4th Line "D"

[jvf1095]

Hello All. Hope this post finds you all well. Although my range at this point is only a "G" or "A" above the staff, 4th line "D" is a note I never had a problem with. BUT...all of a sudden, especially when it's the first note in a passage, I'm either fracking it, hitting a "B flat" below it, or a fifth line "F" above it! Driving me freaken NUTS!!! It's almost now, to use a golf analogy, that when I get to a water hole, I know the ball is going for a swim! As weird as it sounds, I even tried shutting my eyes, so I wouldn't see the note on the piece I'm playing! (Kind of not looking at the pond on the course). Any ideas??????????????? THANKS!!

[Richard III]

Check the note against a tuner. What trumpet are you playing?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[jvf1095]

Hi! Playing a Holton Collegiate (circa 1965). Valves are aligned well, horn has no leaks, valves are smooth with quick response. The tone on this horn is really nice. But it happens whether I'm playing a 7c, 5c, 3c, even a shallower mouthpiece like a 3E. I can download a tuner on my phone, so get to that.

[jvf1095]

Richard the III Checked with a tuner. With the tuning slide all the way in, 4th line D using the first valve is spot on. Using valves 1 & 3 it is a tad sharper.

[Doug Elliott]

For a clean sound and response, the embouchure needs to be either downstream (most players) or upstream (less common). That is describing the way the air exits the lips - if there is more top lip in the mouthpiece the air will go down;. If there's more bottom lip the air will go up. This is related to the Reinhardt embouchure types, if you don't know. Fracking notes, or sometimes a double buzz, is usually caused by indecision in the embouchure whether to be downstream or upstream - that happens if the mouthpiece placement is 50/50 and there's nothing defining it to be one way or the other. It may be one direction in the lower range and the other direction in the higher range, and sometimes you can hear a distinct sound quality difference between them.

In any case, the solution depends on exactly what the situation is, and as I teach it, becoming aware of your actual embouchure type and how it needs to function to be consistent.

[jvf1095]

Hmmm? I did notice something along those lines. I know most people have an over bite, so they have to bring their jaw forward. Me, my bite is fairly even; with perhaps my front four teeth sitting less than an eighth of an inch behind my bottom four teeth when they are together. When they are spaced apart however, they line up even. I did notice though, trying a 50/50 placement, that I have to put more pressure on the top lip (& I don't mean smashing the horn in my face), tilting the horn ever so slightly up. Hate the thought of that, because I'd rather see the bottom lip carry the weight. Does that go along with what you are describing Doug? Thanks!

[MrOlds]

Set a metronome at some tempo (slow to moderate) 60-80. Tap your foot. Play a D for one beat then remove the mouthpiece for 3 beats. During the last beat of rest breathe & place the mouthpiece and play another D on beat 1…

D-rest-rest-rest
D-rest-rest-rest
D-rest-rest-rest
Etc.

Do this as many times as you reasonably can. (20, 50, 100?).

Notice where there is tension in your body. Neck? Shoulders? Hands? Throat? Release the tension wherever you find it. Keep playing the D over and over again until it feels relaxed and natural and you never miss and each note sounds exactly the same.

If you’re really hung up and are missing the D over and over try imagining you’re playing G-A-B-C on the 4 eighth notes before you actually play the D on beat 1.

It might suck at first. Just keep repeating the D every 4 beats until your mechanism figures out it’s easy.

Do this every other day. After 2 weeks do the same thing with Eb. Then E after 2 weeks, then F, etc.

Also buy or find a copy of “ R. Shuebruk Lip Trainers For Trumpet “. It’s a great book for sorting out initial attacks. Don’t skip the early exercises.

[jeirvine]

[nieuwguyski]

[Andy Cooper]

It does seem odd that this would happen "all of a sudden".

Is this also a problem on other trumpets?

(Sorry - just had a 50 year flashback to my band director days - the sousaphone seem a bit off. I checked and found a pair of tennis shoes stuffed well into the bell.)

You might check for smaller foreign objects in the leadpipe, tuning slide and perhaps the 1st slide.

[TrumpetMD]

[Doug Elliott]

I can take a look on Skype if you want. PM me.

[jvf1095]

Hello All. Thanks for all the feedback. Going to go through these responses slowly. Doug, I believe I might have taken a lesson with you a year or two back. My embouchure is a lot stronger now, & I'm a lot more educated if you will at this point, & I can do things on the horn I couldn't do then. So I just might take you up on that again. Thanks

[jvf1095]

Oh, Jeirvine... with the mouthpieces, not so much switching between them to play. Just thought I'd try them one at a time to see if I had the same issue; & I did. But I understand your point. (Thanks).

[JayKosta]

Deliberate concentration on initial note attack - all aspects of embouchure and air. Each has its own particular feel and 'pronunciation' - might not be exactly even 'steps' from one to the next.

Long tones with emphasis on initial sounding - air and tongued.

It's necessary to 'imagine' the pitch and have physiology (mechanics) be fully positioned (no sliding-into).
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[shofarguy]

This is going to sound weird to you. Clock your mouthpiece. Find a mark on the cup, usually the rim size stamped into the metal. Put the mouthpiece into the receiver with that mark at 12:00 (straight up). Play something you use to warm up that has intervals. I like to use the song Alfie.

Now, take the mouthpiece out and insert it again (don't just twist it) 45 degrees to one side or the other. Play the same exercise again. Keep going "around the clock" noticing which position gives you the easiest response and greatest accuracy. Always insert your mouthpiece at this position. It can make a dramatic improvement in the consistency of your playing.

Other things: Don't force your mouthpiece into the horn. It will wear out the receiver and make your horn harder to play accurately. Your tone will deteriorate over time, as well. Just place the mouthpiece into the receiver and twist just enough for the metals to grab each other. Never tap the rim of the mouthpiece to get it to stay in the receiver.

Practice intervals as part of your daily routine. I've also experienced the same issue with 4th line D. This past year, I've added octave intervals into my warmup. Interval exercises helped overcome the problem. The reason I use octaves is that the note is the same and I can focus on attacks. I play the easy register, then breathe and play the upper (or lower) register cleanly. I always work at each interval until I play four repetitions cleanly in succession before changing notes.

These exercises have helped me gain a significant amount of accuracy.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[jvf1095]

Checking mouthpiece doesn't sound weird at all. Jay's point is well taken too. But, can you suggest an octave interval exercise I can use? Thanks!

[Just_Another_Hack]

If this has started "all of the sudden", and it's just the fourth line D, then either your chops are out of whack (likely), or the horn is out of whack (highly likely). That's a pretty old instrument. There's no telling if there's crud stuck somewhere that is now disrupting that nodal point. I'd be willing to bet if you plugged your mouthpiece into a modern horn, the issue goes away.
_________________
Professional lower-split 3rd clarinet player.

[jvf1095]

Good point "just-another-hack". But had the horn professionally cleaned in & out, new springs, valves aligned, compression checked, no leaks, etc. It's in great shape. Beautiful tone (even from me)! And since then, I'll clean it out often & always make sure I brush & rinse out well before playing. Wish I could test another horn. Could very well be that even though this Holton is solid, that another horn might work better for me. But I'm willing to bet that a pro player level or "heavyweight" as a phrase used in this forum, could play "the phone book" on it without a problem. Saw demos in you-tube where a pro would take a $300 to $3,000 horn & play just as well on all 3. But, yes, nothing is off the table so to speak as to what it can be. But in all likely hood.... it's me.

[jeirvine]

After being a one-horn guy for years (Bach 37) I had always felt a little squirrely around that D/E area. I could hit them fine, but needed to do it intentionally. During the pandemic I picked up a few other horns. And on a few of them (mostly old Olds) those notes are longer an issue. They pop out like any other notes. So it's time to get my Bach checked out.
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1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37