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BAC brings back the Martin Commitment


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piddlepaddle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:14 pm    Post subject: BAC brings back the Martin Commitment Reply with quote

Did you guys here that BAC in ks is making the Martin comtitties now? My friend says they bought the patent. Its amazing what can happen in one place so quickly.first benge then caliccho now Martin whats next? maybe they will revive one of the greats like busher. or benson I heard those were good I wonder if they know what they are doing by saving our trumpets maker
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157239&start=0
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, two things; I was not impressed with their promotional video at all and 2. it's only offered in Large bore, which I don't play. Sure is pretty, though.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any US patent by Martin is most likely long expired. Design patents from that time were only valid for 15 years and utility patents 17 years.

The other thread linked above has much more accurate information.

I suspect that the name is the only thing of value left from the original company.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn on their website looks more like a Bach than a Martin. So many small details from the original Committee that went completely overlooked: valve block, caps, and finger buttons all look like a copy of a Bach, 1st and 3rd slide configuration do not match a vintage Martin, the 1st slide hook looks like it came off of a Bach, and the 3rd slide ring looks like a generic student-model finger ring, not the iconic Committee version. At least the water keys match the original Committee. The website looks extremely sketchy. There are no photos of the horn with the 2nd valve slide or mouthpiece receiver visible. The "silver" trumpet on the site is a black-and-white version of the lacquered horn photos, meaning they only photographed one trumpet. Who knows if they have ever even made a silver one. Also, in the pictures of the silver plated trumpet, the last photo is clearly a Kanstul 1602 valve section, as it has a totally different profile and valve configuration compared to the Bach-copy valve set shown in the other pics.



I would be extremely cautious about purchasing an instrument from that company, as it seems they are more interested in selling nostalgia than delivering an actual product. The address on their site is a PO Box, and the "our story" section spends more words discussing prayer than it does instrument making. If BAC is producing these trumpets, that's a guarantee that the valves are being made in China.



There are enough original Martin Committees out there that it would be cheaper to buy a reasonably nice vintage one and have it completely restored rather than purchasing a "new" one. As for the bore size, who even knows what "#3 bore" means since they don't provide an actual specification on the site.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't conflate Richard Martin, who somehow thinks that being descended from the family that had nothing to do with the company by the time the Committee was first designed, and who has failed to do much of anything to market either the horns first built for him by Kanstul, or the remarkable new design by BAC - it's not a clone - with the company that actually makes the instrument, BAC.

BAC offers a variety of valve blocks including both Bauerfeind and CB. There have been, as far as I have heard, only 2 BAC Committees ever bult because Mr. Martin did not come through with sales, and he negotiated an exclusive contract that prevents BAC selling them any other way.

These are fine instruments. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be available due to human factors unrelated to the designers and craftsmen behind the horn itself.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see anything wrong with a contemporary company making new (warranty, etc.?) classic horns, especially if they have the original tooling. I love my classic Benge and Committee and see no reason to trade them for a new one, but if the tooling and quality is here, why not?

Everybody's looking for their own marketing niche. After all, didn't Kanstul make a reputation for making contemporary versions of classic horns?
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J. Landress Brass
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:


BAC offers a variety of valve blocks including both Bauerfeind and CB. There have been, as far as I have heard, only 2 BAC Committees ever bult because Mr. Martin did not come through with sales, and he negotiated an exclusive contract that prevents BAC selling them any other way.


Most of the BAC horns I have seen have Chinese valve blocks, not Carol. The only horns there are using Bauerfeind blocks are their "Benge"
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giakara
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin committee name is the biggest marketing deal in the history of musical instruments craft , if you put it in trumpet shape cazoo you have sales .....😂

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Halflip
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Landress Brass wrote:
Most of the BAC horns I have seen have Chinese valve blocks, not Carol.

Are you saying this because you are making a distinction between Taiwan and mainland China? Just curious.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Landress Brass wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:


BAC offers a variety of valve blocks including both Bauerfeind and CB. There have been, as far as I have heard, only 2 BAC Committees ever bult because Mr. Martin did not come through with sales, and he negotiated an exclusive contract that prevents BAC selling them any other way.


Most of the BAC horns I have seen have Chinese valve blocks, not Carol. The only horns there are using Bauerfeind blocks are their "Benge"


That's partially due to how few high-end BAC horns there are out there. BAC's marketing arm has failed miserably to facilitate their move into the market, and as of today, there still is no serious distribution network for anything post-Kanstul.

The use of Asian blocks in the Paseo and Plaza horns is a questionable decision. It does keep the price of hand built horns that incorporate a lot of Kanstul IP low, but it does leave one with Chinese valves. . . . The Paseo trombones do not suffer from this and incorporate some interesting Williams tech.

As for the top tier, this is where the marketing fail has really hurt. I am aware of only 2 of the Committees, ever made/sold. I don't know if Trent ever went beyond the 2 BACBs, but if so, it was not many. And, while there have been more Benge horns built and immediately sold, its still very low volume.

If BAC marketing recognized that their student rental focus needs to be separated from selling high end horns, and did something about it, BAC would be viewed very differently. (People cannot appreciate what they cannot access)
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
If BAC marketing recognized that their student rental focus needs to be separated from selling high end horns, and did something about it, BAC would be viewed very differently. (People cannot appreciate what they cannot access)
That's pretty hard to do when the student rental business is what keeps them afloat, especially in these difficult economic times. I'm guessing that they have some serious debt to service after the Kanstul takeover, and that they're lacking the capital needed to get their Benge and Martin lines in production.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a trumpet playing band director, their student horn business has zero impact on how I view their pro horns. What drives business IS the student market....along with COST, tradition, hype, and accessibility.

Many of the boutique makes that we look upon so fondly now got a HUGE boost due to the popularity of TH and TM back in the 2000s and 2010s. Now that TH is dying on the vine, and TM is dead and gone, where does the hype happen? Music stores aren't carrying BAC pro models, studio teachers aren't recommending them in their methods classes to future band directors, and there aren't pro endorsers on here promoting them the way that Lawler, Eclipse, Callet, and more, had back in the day.

Almost none of my students go on to major in music, and a very few will march in college. If I have trumpet players that want to upgrade, their parents can't afford a new Strad or Xeno. Shoot, I probably won't be able to afford pro horns for my own kids! They CAN afford the much derided step-up intermediate models, so that is what they end up with.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simply said, "Yamaha" smoothly, all the way from bottom to the top.

(Lest anyone take offense, notice I use no Yamaha products.)
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mafields627 wrote:
Now that TH is dying on the vine . . .


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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How serious os the OP with his Martin Commitment and his ‘comtitties’ ?
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
How serious os the OP with his Martin Commitment and his ‘comtitties’ ?

Good question! Funny -- I wondered about "Busher" and "Benson" but missed the "comtitties".
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
mafields627 wrote:
Now that TH is dying on the vine . . .



IMO, most message boards are. Specifically here, the trolls have run off most of the pros and the traffic is a blip of what it once was.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mafields627 wrote:
Specifically here, the trolls have run off most of the pros and the traffic is a blip of what it once was.

I'd be interested in seeing whether actual statistical data backs up your assertions. The traffic seems pretty brisk to me, and "pros" seem to pop up rather surprisingly in certain recent posts despite a few well-publicized departures. (I assume they are too busy to make more than the occasional appearance.)
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
mafields627 wrote:
Specifically here, the trolls have run off most of the pros and the traffic is a blip of what it once was.

I'd be interested in seeing whether actual statistical data backs up your assertions. The traffic seems pretty brisk to me, and "pros" seem to pop up rather surprisingly in certain recent posts despite a few well-publicized departures. (I assume they are too busy to make more than the occasional appearance.)


Probably not, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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