Add a 3rd valve water key?

[ECLtmpt2]

I have a 'B' Series Schilke that I really like (B6). It gets a lot of use. My issue is the 3rd valve slide does not have a water key and with the stop screw getting condensation out of the slide is a pain. It involves either holding the horn up and blowing while depressing the valves in sequence, 3,2,1 and then turning it around and emptying it through the bell. We've all seen this move, and during a performance it really makes you stick out. Option 2 is backing out the stop screw and pulling the slide. Either way it's not a quick solution like the 'dump' slide on some horns.

A water key can be put on the slide but I'm concerned that may negatively effect the horn.

Have any one of you experience with this? I'm sure there are many opinions but actual experience would be preferred.

Install a water key or just live with it as is?

Actually another option is to have Schilke build me another slide with a water key, but that's an expensive option. ...I guess the term 'spit valve' is no longer correct

[trumpetera]

Everything changes something. I have tried 3rd valve slides with vaterkeys on my Bach’s and quickly changed back. The response was altered.

Try to pull the 2nd slide, tilt the horn to the right and upwards and blow.
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

[LittleRusty]

Maybe to make the change reversible get a replacement slide with a waterkey on it, or have one added, keeping your current as is just in case.

Of course the new slide will need fitting by a tech.

If it were me, if the replacement doesn’t come with a waterkey I would fit it without and see if it changes the horn from the stock configuration. But that is due to my curious nature.

[JoeLoeffler]

Adding a water key to that third slide will definitely change how the horn plays. (The third slide area is very touchy about changes in mass…) The safest thing would be for you to contact Shilke and discuss with them having an alternate slide made with waterkey. Personally, I would just make peace with backing the stop screw out and dumping the slide.

[ECLtmpt2]

[Jerry]

I've owned various Schilke trumpets over the years.

I know we're all different, but I've never given it a second thought to backing the stop screw out a few turns and dumping the slide.

If it's a real concern for you, you might be happier with a different horn. I certainly wouldn't add a water key to your Schilke.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

[nieuwguyski]

For some reason I never minded blowing the moisture out the bell of my Schilke X4b, but the same move never worked as well on the CX5. I had my local repair guy install an Amado on the third slide and never looked back.

I'm planning on contacting Schilke and sending the CX5 in for some work and when that's done it will end up with a lever-style Schilke water key on the third slide.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[shofarguy]

I owned an X4 for a year or two. I had the same problem you mention. I went to ITG with a fellow TH member the year it was in Anaheim and had Kanstul put an Amado key on the third slide.

It made no discernible difference to the horn's responsiveness, it made dealing with moisture buildup easy and it minimized a funky, nasal overtone that lots of Schilke horns seem to have to some degree or another.

In my case, it was a total win.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[chef8489]

I agree with getting a second dump slide with a water key made so you can keep the original. This was advised to me by Charlie Melk for my restoration on my 1967 Bach 37. I should know in June how this works out for me.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger

[ECLtmpt2]

My thoughts seem to be confirmed. I'm not going to mess with the original slide. If anything I'd probably go with a complete new slide.

I contacted Schilke and with shipping + insurance and all a new slide with a lever water key will come in around $500.- with about a 4 week turn around.

Need to think on this. In the mean time I'll see if I can retrain myself to just use the stop screw and see how that goes. For me $500.- is a lot for a gamble just to find out if it works.

[chef8489]

[ldwoods]

There is one other option. On the B7L I purchased a few weeks ago, it also had no 3rd valve slide waterkey. My solution, which as it turned out was not needed.

Remove the stop screw and leave it in a drawer. To ensure the slide does not fall out, use some type of flexible band. I use "scrunchies', those rubber band looking things women use in their hair. I loop two together, put one end on the 1st valve slide U hook and the other end on the 3rd valve slide ring.

Do NOT use regular rubber band as there is some acidity in regular old rubber bands.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[LittleRusty]

[mr oakmount]

"I contacted Schilke and with shipping + insurance and all a new slide with a lever water key will come in around $500.- with about a 4 week turn around."

It cost me less than half that to get a full set of Bb slides (main, 1st, 2nd and 3rd) for my Bach C trumpet. That's a lot of dough ...

If a 3rd valve slide water key is important for you, I'd just have an Amando fitted by a capable service technician and live with any possible minor changes that might or might not come with it. It's not going to turn an amazing trumpet into a watering can, is it?

PS: Before anyone asks: Yes, the Bb slides work great. It sounds very Strad 25-ish. Very well in tune with itself. Just quite front heavy and harder to hold for a long time.

[robrtx]

Another option is to remove 2nd valve slide, turn trumpet 90 degrees with 2nd valve slide opening facing floor, and blow while holding down 2nd and 3rd valves.
_________________
Bob

Bb: Schilke
Flglhn: Adams F1

[robrtx]

[quote="trumpetera"Try to pull the 2nd slide, tilt the horn to the right and upwards and blow.[/quote]

This
_________________
Bob

Bb: Schilke
Flglhn: Adams F1

[trpthrld]

I always found the head of the 3rd screw to be kinda small for quick use. A buddy who is also a carpenter made an oversized wood knob that he expoxied to the screw head.

It's big enough to comfortably grab & twist but not so big that it's obtrusive. I think it added only a couple of grams of weight to the horn.

Problem fixed!
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be

[ECLtmpt2]

[trpthrld]

A good brass tech could install an Amado key for probably $75, and most of that price is the cost of the key.

But I do agree with the comments that adding a spit valve will change the playing characteristics of a horn.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be

[LittleRusty]