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Double Embouchure?



 
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Jason Rogers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:49 am    Post subject: Double Embouchure? Reply with quote

Does anyone work with a double embouchure?
In the late 70's I attended a Ferguson concert where I spotted one of his trumpet section players during intermission selling t-shirts. I believe it was Stan Mark. I could see by the stress marks on his lips that he could play off of both sides of his mouth. Does anyone else use this strategy? Did I remember correctly that it was Stan Mark?
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "double embouchure" is a woodwind technique/term. I understand what you are referring to - multiple placements - just to avoid confusion.

Yes, some players have and successfully employ multiple placements. They are distinctly in the minority.

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Mike
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez used multiple embouchures. After his terrible injury, he learned he could use other positions as he got fatigued.
Bud Herseth remarked he could move his mouthpiece a bit as needed.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Claude Gordon that was done by Rafael Mendez. Claude said he did it a few times if he had a cold sore. He demonstrates that a little bit in the video in my ebook. I have a couple friends though that saw him do another demonstration where he would lick his lips to make them more slippery and then slide the trumpet across the top and bottom lips while playing chromatics from Low G to G above High C.

Claude’s point was that the lips function is to vibrate. I play to the left side of my mouth because of how my front tooth used to stick out more and an accident in 1983 and terrible crown job by a dentist made it worse. I had the crown finally redone in 2019 and it looks more normal and didn’t do anything to my playing. I can place it more to center and it feels more comfortable now but for whatever reason everything responds better over to the other side than exactly in the center.

I think the thing that helped me most regarding placement was moving from down low at about ¼ top lip to now at least ⅔ to ¾ top lip. It provides a more free vibration and these recent changes with this crown were pretty dramatic with taking about 1.5mm off the length and 2mm off the thickness and changing the edge of the tooth. I worried it might damage my playing like the original thick crown did in 1983 when I had my mouthpiece placement very low. It was Claude Gordon that changed that and it mattered so much but the first three months were frustrating but worth the change.

Stan Mark took from Claude but that wasn’t any special thing taught. He probably just moved it and made it work. Don’t get too over analytical about it. You can’t look at someone’s playing from the outside and see their lip do something weird and think that’s all that makes it work. More is going on internally that is not visible that controls everything.

Jeff
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trpt.hick
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Mendez could do that, but he never moved the mouthpiece around during concerts.

During clinics (I watched one) he talked about mouthpiece placement. He said that vertical placement was critical for each player, but the side to side was not so important. To demonstrate this, he placed the mouthpiece/trumpet all the way to the right side of his mouth, took a huge breath, and played Flight of the Bumblebee. As he played for about 30 seconds, he gradually slid the mouthpiece/trumpet to his left. By the end of the breath, it was all the way to the left side of his mouth. The tone never changed!

David Hickman
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Jason Rogers
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:48 pm    Post subject: Thanks !!! Reply with quote

Thanks to all that responded !!!
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