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Warmest Flugelhorn?


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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:01 am    Post subject: Warmest Flugelhorn? Reply with quote

Hi guys,

I have a Kanstul 1525 Copper.

Is this the biggest, warmest-sounding flugelhorn ever?

If it's not, what is?

Thanks!

Ken

P.S. I think the copper bell has a lot to do with it!
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puzzleheadedcow
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think practicing has a lot more to do with a solid sound concept versus a bell material choise... As Ryan Kisor says "Less Facebook more Arban's book".

the horn is only one part of the equation. Until you figure out how to actually achieve your sound concept the horn doesn't really matter I think.

You spend a lot of time online it seems by all your posts. Maybe spend less time asking questions and more time playing long tones?

-PHC
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m sure you’re right, but because of my job (I’m a priest in a busy parish) I don’t have the time or space to practice a lot.
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puzzleheadedcow
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kennyg2019 wrote:
I’m sure you’re right, but because of my job (I’m a priest in a busy parish) I don’t have the time or space to practice a lot.


Well if you're not going to put the practice time in I don't think it matters. Good luck! There are no cheat codes in making music.

-PHC
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your well wishes!

Anyone else?

I just tried a Van Laar B6 Copper but found the Kanstul warmer and "softer" (more diffused).
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the sound is dependent on the mouthpiece, especially with a flugelhorn. Some sound not so good purely because of that.
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GR custom made me a “Grooms” mouthpiece that is perfect…big and warm and in tune. It’s a variation on his 3MX with the #4 Schilke rim…so soft!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I read further, the Mouthpiece thing was one of my first thoughts, too . . that and practicing with a clear mental concept of the sound you are after.

Regarding practice time, if it's limited, practice smartly, don't just play meaninglessly. If I wanted to work on tone, I would routinely play regular long tones, then Cichowicz Long Tones and the Bordogni Etudes both which I call "moving long tones". And check your mouthpiece.

And make dure you pick a role model for sound and listen, listen, listen.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:00 am    Post subject: Flugel bells Reply with quote

I was showing my horns at a conference a while ago and on the table was a silver plated Scodwell flugel laying next to a copper bell Kanstul which Washington Music Center also sold. One week went by and nobody even looked at my silver flugel and went directly to the copper bell Kanstul.The irony here is my silver plated flugel was actually the darker sounding horn. This experience prompted me to start offering a copper bell model as "it has a copper bell so it must be a darker sounding flugel". In my line-up the copper bell flugel never sounded as dark as the yellow brass model. Eye candy for sure.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, Ken,

You and I have chatted via PM about this, but I can tell you the warmest flugelhorn sound by far: The Benge 5X

Yes, intonation sucks on almost all of them, but dear me that SOUND!
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krax
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been thinking that brass contributes to a warmer sound. Copper as well as nickel silver makes it dark, sure, but not warm. I find them cold sounding. To my ears, this has been proven over and over again with both flugelhorns and trumpets.

I guess that just illustrates the problem with language.
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
OK, Ken,

You and I have chatted via PM about this, but I can tell you the warmest flugelhorn sound by far: The Benge 5X

Yes, intonation sucks on almost all of them, but dear me that SOUND!


That’s interesting. I had a Benge CG in school and it was the same…the best sounding (and worst intonation) in the section!lol

OK, so maybe I should qualify my question-statement: “What’s the biggest, warmest-sounding flugelhorn that can actually play in tune!”
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Flugel bells Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
I was showing my horns at a conference a while ago and on the table was a silver plated Scodwell flugel laying next to a copper bell Kanstul which Washington Music Center also sold. One week went by and nobody even looked at my silver flugel and went directly to the copper bell Kanstul.The irony here is my silver plated flugel was actually the darker sounding horn. This experience prompted me to start offering a copper bell model as "it has a copper bell so it must be a darker sounding flugel". In my line-up the copper bell flugel never sounded as dark as the yellow brass model. Eye candy for sure.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com


Hi Tony!

I actually tried one of your flugelhorns. I actually found it slightly warmer than the Kanstul, but I found the Kanstul bigger/broader sounding. So, I ended up staying with the Kanstul…but it was close! Thank you!
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krax wrote:
I've always been thinking that brass contributes to a warmer sound. Copper as well as nickel silver makes it dark, sure, but not warm. I find them cold sounding. To my ears, this has been proven over and over again with both flugelhorns and trumpets.

I guess that just illustrates the problem with language.

Wow, I’ve heard copper described as cold-sounding before! 🤔
I will have to look into. Thanks.
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puzzleheadedcow
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kennyg2019 wrote:



OK, so maybe I should qualify my question-statement: “What’s the biggest, warmest-sounding flugelhorn that can actually play in tune!”


hmmm....


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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I'd consider replacing a horn as nice as the Kanstul I'd definitely try mouthpieces. Something like the Reeves HF might transform your experience.
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
Before I'd consider replacing a horn as nice as the Kanstul I'd definitely try mouthpieces. Something like the Reeves HF might transform your experience.


Will do…I have a great GR mouthpiece but will try the HF! Thanks!
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EdMann
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, the flugel's a Benge 5, not 5X. 5X is the trumpet. I played one on and off for about 30 years. The bore is enormous, about .460, and I believe Zig Kanstul designed it while there in the 70s. For the life of me, I don't know what he was thinking. The intonation, even with the Benge mpc that came with it, was a horror show. I sold it to my friend Dayna who apparently found a mpc that works for her, and she records regularly with it. Loves it.

The 1525 has an equally enormous bell but a .421 bore. Intonation on any one I've played is incredible, and warm? It's like an electric blanket. And no tuning issues, at least per me.

I'm married to my Besson, though, so all of this is academic, and at .413 bore with the Couesnon sized bell and construction, nearly perfect (nothing is!)

ed
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Kennyg2019
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EdMann wrote:
First, the flugel's a Benge 5, not 5X. 5X is the trumpet. I played one on and off for about 30 years. The bore is enormous, about .460, and I believe Zig Kanstul designed it while there in the 70s. For the life of me, I don't know what he was thinking. The intonation, even with the Benge mpc that came with it, was a horror show. I sold it to my friend Dayna who apparently found a mpc that works for her, and she records regularly with it. Loves it.

The 1525 has an equally enormous bell but a .421 bore. Intonation on any one I've played is incredible, and warm? It's like an electric blanket. And no tuning issues, at least per me.

I'm married to my Besson, though, so all of this is academic, and at .413 bore with the Couesnon sized bell and construction, nearly perfect (nothing is!)

ed


Someone else told me they love the Besson flugel. I think it was Gary Radtke!
May I ask your flugelhorn wife’s name? Which model and bell material?
Thanks!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kennyg2019 wrote:
cheiden wrote:
Before I'd consider replacing a horn as nice as the Kanstul I'd definitely try mouthpieces. Something like the Reeves HF might transform your experience.


Will do…I have a great GR mouthpiece but will try the HF! Thanks!

Be careful what you wish for.
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