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Yorch
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Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Location: UK
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 Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:46 am Post subject: 1944 Selmer Trumpet |
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My dear friends,
I've bought a Selmer trumpet but I can not identify it! So...I am sure more than a hundred people will know everything about it here! 
I know it was made in 1944 because of the serial number, that is all I know.
I hope I haven't waste my money! 
Thank you in advance
_________________
Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Under the mouthpiece receiver should have at least the model number.
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Yorch
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Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 6:11 am Post subject: |
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No engravements on the receiver!
Thank you anyway!
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Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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SilverSpunk
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Joined: 17 Oct 2022
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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No one???
Ok I will bite,
This is most likely a Selmer 20B "GRAND PRIX" trumpet which was a special artist model, however this one lacks the extra engraving that would have made it more obvious. These earlier Selmer GRAND PRIX versions probably didn't have the model number on the reciever.
Here is a quote from an old post.
| Quote: | | The 20B was the artist model as evidenced by the "Qualite Artisitique" (Artist Quality) located at the top of the bell engraving...the 24B was the "standard" model. Furthermore, what manufacturer would build two identical trumpets with two thousandths difference in bore size?...none. The 20B Artist Model has heavier walled slide tubing thus reducing the inside diameter by .002". This changes the resonance of the horn and provides a more dense and centered core. The 20B also sports a slightly heavier bell that likewise adds to the purer sound of the 20B, thus making it the choice of most professionals. The 20B is truly an all purpose trumpet capable of producing superb results playing any music style in any acoustic venue. It has the ability to cut through a section, but balances well with the other horns. Its tone is lush, dense, rich, centered, focused, and somewhat warm as one would expect from a top-of-the-line Paris trumpet built from high quality French brass. When pushed, it can become quite bright with a sophisticated edge and complex overtones. The 20B is a medium weight (2 lb. � 5.9 oz.) free and open blowing, medium bore trumpet that is easy to play and fill, absolutely loves to be piloted in the stratosphere, and exhibits awesome flexibility and responsiveness. The horn has superb intonation and laser slots. |
This trumpet should also be a
Medium .456" bore |
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Yorch
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Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Interesting...
Thank you.
It will be really great if it is a 20B. I am trying to find a trumpet like this one with no luck. It is a WWII trumpet so maybe some thing are different.
_________________
Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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SilverSpunk
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Joined: 17 Oct 2022
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yorch wrote: | Interesting...
Thank you.
It will be really great if it is a 20B. I am trying to find a trumpet like this one with no luck. It is a WWII trumpet so maybe some thing are different. |
Yes, maybe this was used in the War, I know for American manufactured horns, WW2 issues would usually be silver plated and would have the branch of the military engraved on the bell (US Navy ect.)
Perhaps your Selmer is also a military or WW2 issue for a known player who was playing in military band judging by the fact that it is a silver plated and that it lacks the typical engravings of a early Selmer Grand Prix trumpet. |
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Yorch
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Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Yes, probably is something like that. Anything could have happened on those days!
_________________
Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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Yorch
Regular Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Mystery solved. After a huuuge a deep cleaning, the number appeared on the receiver like this:
BB (B flat)
LB (Large Bore)
LP (Low Pitch)
21 (Model number)
So it is a Grand Prix 21 Qualite Artistique. Apart from that almost no info on the internet about Model 21.
Photos after cleaning and oiling.
XX
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Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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Ronnman
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Joined: 09 Aug 2019
Posts: 407
Location: SE Louisiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Yorch - glad you identified the model. Nice looking horn.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
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Yorch
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Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Ronnman!
Thanks to everyone in the forum.
_________________
Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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krax
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Location: Hofors, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:34 am Post subject: |
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It looks much better now!
À propos what Silverspunk quoted, my belief is that "qualité artistique" was put on every horn they made at that time, regardless of model. I know for sure that my model 20 was made with lighter tubing than my 24 (What do I have at home now for comparison: 19A, 20A, 23A, 24B, 25B) and you cannot apply big factory thinking to a small workshop, which the Selmer Paris trumpet making division was. Making models with small differences was no problem for them. No, that quote, to me it sounds like the one who wrote it was about to sell a 20B and I remember thinking it the first time it appeared too...
Those details aside. I bet its a great horn. Personally, I just love the Selmer sound, and I always return to that whatever else I try to play. |
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Yorch
Regular Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Thank you!
To be honest I don't know the difference of Qualite Artistique and the others. I supposed they were the top quality ones but I can not find info about what QA means.
By the way I am not sure if they engraved them all with QA because these past days I have found a lot of info about Grand Prix and only a few of them were QA. Anyway, as I said, I am not sure what QA really means!
On the other hand, info about Model 21 on the internet = zero BUT the sound of this trumpet is just amazing. Even when you are cleaning it you can hear how the sound of the friction goes through it!
I am in love with this trumpet.
_________________
Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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Yorch
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Posts: 38
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I've just spent some hours to make a finger hook (similar to Selmer ones) because someone in the past added another one (who knows why). So I made a new one in brass and a silver electroplating at the end.
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Besson Kanstul "Ziggy Kanstul"
Yamaha YTR 4320ES
H.N. White King Liberty 1050 (1924)
F. Besson Class A Cornet (1891) |
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