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Looking for Horn Similar to Claude Gordon Benge


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trumpet12360
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Joined: 23 May 2023
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:52 am    Post subject: Looking for Horn Similar to Claude Gordon Benge Reply with quote

I am currently touring with a Broadway show and I am in need of an equipment change. The book is a demanding lead book (among literally every style under the sun) that isn't sitting well on my 50th Anniversary Bach. I went home and tried my old CG Benge that I have laying around from my uncle. The show works great on it, but I don't want to travel the horn as it is more sentimental than anything to me.

I love the feel of the Benge over the Bach, but would be curious to see what other people would think is similar.

Thanks in advance!
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for Horn Similar to Claude Gordon Benge Reply with quote

trumpet12360 wrote:
I am currently touring with a Broadway show and I am in need of an equipment change. The book is a demanding lead book (among literally every style under the sun) that isn't sitting well on my 50th Anniversary Bach. I went home and tried my old CG Benge that I have laying around from my uncle. The show works great on it, but I don't want to travel the horn as it is more sentimental than anything to me.

I love the feel of the Benge over the Bach, but would be curious to see what other people would think is similar.

Thanks in advance!

So what about the Bach isn't working?
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trumpet12360
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach is very difficult to navigate in the upper register. The show likes to hang out in the Db-F# above high C, the most problematic note is the Eb. It doesn't like to slot and when it does, it's usually some form of sliding into it. I find it difficult to articulate that note especially at faster tempos.
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benlewis
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might try the Selmer Claude Gordon model (if you can find one...) A friend of mine who was a great lead player had one and regretted letting it go...

HTH

Ben
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selmer B700 is quite close too.

.358 venturi

Not many horns had big venturi like the CG
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olds SuperStar (no kidding...)
Burbank 3X MLP
HN White King Silver Flair (but not so much the KMI ones)
Calicchio 1s/7 and 1s/2
Stomvi VRII


None of these is the same as a Benge CG - but they seem to be inclined toward what you are looking for.

I also considered including the 900 Eterna Classic and the Advance Stage IV, but these tend to be a bit edgy relative to your horns.
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.

Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.

Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.

King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine.
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ldwoods wrote:
I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.

Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.

Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.

King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine.
I much prefer the 60s flair to the 70s flair. The H.N white vs the Kmi versions. I have probably had a Silver flair from every decade they sold and the 60s is the only version I seem to keep, eventhough I loved them all.
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JWG
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While not a copy of the CG design, Flip Oaks Wild Thing has many of the CG features, like light weight construction, .470 bore, open feel, large bell, et cetera.

Every blue moon, someone will sell a Wild Thing . . . thus, you may see Wild Things for sale more often than either a Benge CG or the very elusive Selmer/Bach-made CG.

If looking for a new horn, check out Warburton's website where you can custom configure a horn with some of the features of a CG horn.

https://warburton-usa.com

Good hunting.
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ldwoods
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
ldwoods wrote:
I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.

Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.

Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.

King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine.
I much prefer the 60s flair to the 70s flair. The H.N white vs the Kmi versions. I have probably had a Silver flair from every decade they sold and the 60s is the only version I seem to keep, eventhough I loved them all.


I have never tried one from the 60s, but mine is from the early 70s (I think). It is King Musical Instruments Eastlake and plays really well, SN 477xxx.

To the OP, there has been an early WT on ebay for quite a while, so maybe the seller will consider reasonable offers? I don't think it is getting many views because it is listed in a strange category arts and collectables or something like that.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/364115615095
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Masashi Sugiyama in Japan has a replica of the CG Selmer that he's designed and had made, I think, in Taiwan. I've played it and it's very similar to the CG Selmer. Several people in the Bay Area have gotten them and seem happy with how they play.

https://www.masashisugiyama.com/equipment

Other than that, I don't know of any production horn that comes close to the old CG Benge or Selmer.

Note: Pardon my error before the edit - It's definitely a CG Selmer copy.
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Last edited by yourbrass on Wed May 24, 2023 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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meoates1
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just get another CG Benge that you aren't sentimentally attached too?

I mean- I would take it and play, but that's just me.

I picked up a very reasonably priced one (probably here off TH)- it has some wear, but it plays great.


Also, second the Calicchio 1s2 though they are getting pricier. Depending on the book, one of those two horn would be a go to for me for that the type of show you describe.


Also- different horns, but also love my Yamaha LA (or a Bobby Shew)- either one of those could work great for what you describe. IMHO the LA offers a lot of variety of colors for broadway stuff- where you have to cover a lot of styles. That is what I am currently using on the Nat. Tour of Annie....
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can find a used Kanstul 1070, or a Burbank 6X-CG, or another used CG Benge (lots of these are in need of a lot of work and are awful, as is) They will be very close.

I think you should also look for a Shires CVLA-L or CVLA-XL to try. They are not as big and open as the Benge, perhaps, but they are fantastic trumpets for the kind of playing you are doing. I especially liked the Large bore model I played and found the upper register pretty easy to access. The sound had a stronger core than the Benge, as well.
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JoeLoeffler
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you will probably fight the Bach in that range. Barring finding another CG Benge I useable condition (I can’t recommend the Selmer ones, they are too big) you might look at some of the Schilke models or the Yamaha LA, Shew Or Miashiro (definitely harder to find in the US, but would probably be best for what you are doing…) They will all have better slotting and intonation above that high C. (And are widely available on the market… both used and new)
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Aaronis
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benlewis wrote:
You might try the Selmer Claude Gordon model (if you can find one...) A friend of mine who was a great lead player had one and regretted letting it go...

HTH

Ben


Hmm, yea I got one, two actually . And yes, they are spectacular. Actually the most responsive horn I have ever played on. I won't ever let mine go.
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Aaronis
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's the Kanstul 1070 - This was designed from the CG horn as it has CG lead pipe and .470 bore iirc. called the CG "Big Band" horn.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the short term you could get a main tuning slide with a larger inside diameter. Either straight or telescopic. M/K Drawing and Bending can fix you up. I've had .470 ID slides made up though you might not want to go that large. It will open up the high register some but sadly it will not make your Bach feel like a Benge.

Why not call Warburton. They could make you a .465 or .470 bore trumpet with a lightweight bell and several leadpipe options. I'm sure they have had the request before.
https://warburton-usa.com/collections/instrumets/products/warburton-bb-trumpets
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course any answer is going to be somewhat subjective. But really, some of the suggestions here are off the charts. ML Calicchios will certainly not blow like a CG Benge nor will they slot the same. An original King Silver Flair is a great horn, I have one, but it is nothing like the CG Benge. Any suggestion of a medium bore horn like the Stomvi, although a fine instrument, is nothing like the CG.

If I were to offer my subjective opinion in this instance, I would recommend finding another CG Benge. They are around. My second choice might be the CG Selmer or a large bore Benge 6X, especially an earlier one. I would also try a Schilke. The B3 may blow a little tighter that the CG Benge, but the blow should be right between the OP's Bach and Benge. If the B3 is too tight, the X5, if you can find one, has the same bell as the B3 but with a .468 bore just like the CG Benge. The Schilke X3 and X4 use the large #1 bell which for me doesn't work nearly as well as my B3, which is my go to horn for lead, shows, and general commercial playing.
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOT EXACTLY, BUT PRETTY CLOSE....

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/385604453123?hash=item59c7d10303:g:oPUAAOSwfKxkW5Jc&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4OLCB9Q5RJIsY3tzkOfcnJZueSPHYJDudWJFAAXgAGaEI4ctAKFm6WR7t6KGkuotFiDaHM1fcHzn84dyY9mPlqgwOXzIEyKe8DMPKwD7RWMxs2wjgyYQhoP4vHLPIR35gCQ%2BKkDQtg8jazC8MWt1wJr9igXxgiCEwQoxTsrUeF8MqPf%2FfGyyB7dpARtQIn%2BoLL%2BgwAqSBtMaOG%2FnxZW9U5IkM%2Bg%2Frx1fQte%2FgTiNtyOl63J1oowTGtVsOHX7tfbE9qg7gfW%2BPzjmq0hDh2hX3ZDrOJAnxl3fJeqk8Hrubcv9%7Ctkp%3ABFBM6MXGvYli

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385559110700?hash=item59c51d242c:g:r9sAAOSwwMBkQJo9&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4D1ROr9oXdUndD5rhEAr0mndjlae8bqAfb%2Bs4A0tqVB%2FIVz38yeicNTt%2FsI73kuyWcFMZhOJHe2zF2roRSeVFEPy5TtlqNVmIWA5DImB2OJBrS9xBex1%2FSpoYWiOqBfqETEbUBsfsJa6tfY0AV3WdX0W%2Bdxk6%2F6jmmclMey6g0cYMEHdeFltOWzkaxn0AM9wFTtXvRnkc1KCgUwKBkBOYiKomsgQpj9DoxwynVWH0VsqwEHTqZylIdue2v5rS3bP1PAFQi5aRP5FEwtQd%2FausNqFpTdkKLtqhSKXk%2B96gFx0%7Ctkp%3ABFBM6MXGvYli

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204316791637?hash=item2f923ad355:g:ZNMAAOSw8UZkR9vM&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4EIEXKR0RlEr%2FTLPjPbIFyW1UrPhk3I8pabDfat7jcyyIx6wCb0GgWd9W9Ms305gGTQzBFDJ6vSCwt81u9EbxxRJpuJNRu58ysHRGZSpACCdR3OosU5n%2Bm2C9MjitS%2BY2I1pk0FpnrrRytG2OlDTcMQedK7ixaQZFrc7ktPJwg%2Fw7Z%2FX5vAvzlhi6EF5LKDzVwjaFafSah4BViw5p%2BxkDiXDqXtR%2Fk2xcD8RN77OZrocPQxIA4xa%2B2%2Fy1PheH%2FNvz96%2FnGtl74oRZURdLhnaIs9yl0qeEpharcdBTt86R3RM%7Ctkp%3ABFBM6MXGvYli

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285141577612?hash=item4263c32f8c:g:7q8AAOSw9v9j5mNE&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4H%2Boj%2FlGneXIscJSBse3JJQseLkY1QZtltInWUuCU2uhJfH8tbQV8RuJj4QLhul1gkAK2XB6J50sG91j3QI2mVrWnyeq9XFeY3n3RT%2Fgm0EWT7SbxWfXer2p6q4f3kuquTJNNerc2WHHuhCMk8X9pWs723kYvWkbiSogob%2FcXYnAau7Q6jdB1rNi%2F1m28tVRNcBFEP%2F5C%2BA4FRVj95uaJapBaCr5givpSXEk8StqVcjjM069vthmZu8mgut1llV33cwZGzcsVXF3G6cbcUvD%2BQKNpuexmLcTM4jGSZP7gluv%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-jFxr2JYg
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mr oakmount
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adams A5 might be to your liking. It has a wide and open blow. The slotting in the high range depends very much on your mouthpiece and approach to playing so - as always - try before buy.
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