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trumpet12360 New Member
Joined: 23 May 2023 Posts: 2 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:52 am Post subject: Looking for Horn Similar to Claude Gordon Benge |
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I am currently touring with a Broadway show and I am in need of an equipment change. The book is a demanding lead book (among literally every style under the sun) that isn't sitting well on my 50th Anniversary Bach. I went home and tried my old CG Benge that I have laying around from my uncle. The show works great on it, but I don't want to travel the horn as it is more sentimental than anything to me.
I love the feel of the Benge over the Bach, but would be curious to see what other people would think is similar.
Thanks in advance! |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Looking for Horn Similar to Claude Gordon Benge |
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trumpet12360 wrote: | I am currently touring with a Broadway show and I am in need of an equipment change. The book is a demanding lead book (among literally every style under the sun) that isn't sitting well on my 50th Anniversary Bach. I went home and tried my old CG Benge that I have laying around from my uncle. The show works great on it, but I don't want to travel the horn as it is more sentimental than anything to me.
I love the feel of the Benge over the Bach, but would be curious to see what other people would think is similar.
Thanks in advance! |
So what about the Bach isn't working? _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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trumpet12360 New Member
Joined: 23 May 2023 Posts: 2 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:09 am Post subject: |
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The Bach is very difficult to navigate in the upper register. The show likes to hang out in the Db-F# above high C, the most problematic note is the Eb. It doesn't like to slot and when it does, it's usually some form of sliding into it. I find it difficult to articulate that note especially at faster tempos. |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: |
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You might try the Selmer Claude Gordon model (if you can find one...) A friend of mine who was a great lead player had one and regretted letting it go...
HTH
Ben |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Selmer B700 is quite close too.
.358 venturi
Not many horns had big venturi like the CG _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Olds SuperStar (no kidding...)
Burbank 3X MLP
HN White King Silver Flair (but not so much the KMI ones)
Calicchio 1s/7 and 1s/2
Stomvi VRII
None of these is the same as a Benge CG - but they seem to be inclined toward what you are looking for.
I also considered including the 900 Eterna Classic and the Advance Stage IV, but these tend to be a bit edgy relative to your horns. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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ldwoods Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 1843 Location: Lake Charles, LA
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.
Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.
Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.
King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine. _________________ Larry Woods
LDWoods |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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ldwoods wrote: | I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.
Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.
Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.
King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine. | I much prefer the 60s flair to the 70s flair. The H.N white vs the Kmi versions. I have probably had a Silver flair from every decade they sold and the 60s is the only version I seem to keep, eventhough I loved them all. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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JWG Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 258
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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While not a copy of the CG design, Flip Oaks Wild Thing has many of the CG features, like light weight construction, .470 bore, open feel, large bell, et cetera.
Every blue moon, someone will sell a Wild Thing . . . thus, you may see Wild Things for sale more often than either a Benge CG or the very elusive Selmer/Bach-made CG.
If looking for a new horn, check out Warburton's website where you can custom configure a horn with some of the features of a CG horn.
https://warburton-usa.com
Good hunting. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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ldwoods Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 1843 Location: Lake Charles, LA
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | ldwoods wrote: | I am not a lead player, but have owned quite a few horns, so have some opinions on the matter.
Schilke X3 or X4 may work for you.
Wild Thing, but those are not readily available, no, I will not sell you mine.
King Silver Flair from the 70s, yes, I will sell you mine. | I much prefer the 60s flair to the 70s flair. The H.N white vs the Kmi versions. I have probably had a Silver flair from every decade they sold and the 60s is the only version I seem to keep, eventhough I loved them all. |
I have never tried one from the 60s, but mine is from the early 70s (I think). It is King Musical Instruments Eastlake and plays really well, SN 477xxx.
To the OP, there has been an early WT on ebay for quite a while, so maybe the seller will consider reasonable offers? I don't think it is getting many views because it is listed in a strange category arts and collectables or something like that.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364115615095 _________________ Larry Woods
LDWoods |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Masashi Sugiyama in Japan has a replica of the CG Selmer that he's designed and had made, I think, in Taiwan. I've played it and it's very similar to the CG Selmer. Several people in the Bay Area have gotten them and seem happy with how they play.
https://www.masashisugiyama.com/equipment
Other than that, I don't know of any production horn that comes close to the old CG Benge or Selmer.
Note: Pardon my error before the edit - It's definitely a CG Selmer copy. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/
Last edited by yourbrass on Wed May 24, 2023 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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meoates1 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 215
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just get another CG Benge that you aren't sentimentally attached too?
I mean- I would take it and play, but that's just me.
I picked up a very reasonably priced one (probably here off TH)- it has some wear, but it plays great.
Also, second the Calicchio 1s2 though they are getting pricier. Depending on the book, one of those two horn would be a go to for me for that the type of show you describe.
Also- different horns, but also love my Yamaha LA (or a Bobby Shew)- either one of those could work great for what you describe. IMHO the LA offers a lot of variety of colors for broadway stuff- where you have to cover a lot of styles. That is what I am currently using on the Nat. Tour of Annie.... _________________ www.markedwardoates.com |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you can find a used Kanstul 1070, or a Burbank 6X-CG, or another used CG Benge (lots of these are in need of a lot of work and are awful, as is) They will be very close.
I think you should also look for a Shires CVLA-L or CVLA-XL to try. They are not as big and open as the Benge, perhaps, but they are fantastic trumpets for the kind of playing you are doing. I especially liked the Large bore model I played and found the upper register pretty easy to access. The sound had a stronger core than the Benge, as well. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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JoeLoeffler Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2004 Posts: 243
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, you will probably fight the Bach in that range. Barring finding another CG Benge I useable condition (I can’t recommend the Selmer ones, they are too big) you might look at some of the Schilke models or the Yamaha LA, Shew Or Miashiro (definitely harder to find in the US, but would probably be best for what you are doing…) They will all have better slotting and intonation above that high C. (And are widely available on the market… both used and new) |
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Aaronis Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 87 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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benlewis wrote: | You might try the Selmer Claude Gordon model (if you can find one...) A friend of mine who was a great lead player had one and regretted letting it go...
HTH
Ben |
Hmm, yea I got one, two actually . And yes, they are spectacular. Actually the most responsive horn I have ever played on. I won't ever let mine go. _________________ 2018 Schilke B6
1980's CG Selmer
1976 CG L.A. Benge
1955 Mt. Vernon Bach
1947 Olds Super
Holton Revelation Model 48
1964 Holton Galaxy Cornet |
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Aaronis Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 87 Location: Kansas
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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There's the Kanstul 1070 - This was designed from the CG horn as it has CG lead pipe and .470 bore iirc. called the CG "Big Band" horn. _________________ 2018 Schilke B6
1980's CG Selmer
1976 CG L.A. Benge
1955 Mt. Vernon Bach
1947 Olds Super
Holton Revelation Model 48
1964 Holton Galaxy Cornet |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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For the short term you could get a main tuning slide with a larger inside diameter. Either straight or telescopic. M/K Drawing and Bending can fix you up. I've had .470 ID slides made up though you might not want to go that large. It will open up the high register some but sadly it will not make your Bach feel like a Benge.
Why not call Warburton. They could make you a .465 or .470 bore trumpet with a lightweight bell and several leadpipe options. I'm sure they have had the request before.
https://warburton-usa.com/collections/instrumets/products/warburton-bb-trumpets |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 904
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Of course any answer is going to be somewhat subjective. But really, some of the suggestions here are off the charts. ML Calicchios will certainly not blow like a CG Benge nor will they slot the same. An original King Silver Flair is a great horn, I have one, but it is nothing like the CG Benge. Any suggestion of a medium bore horn like the Stomvi, although a fine instrument, is nothing like the CG.
If I were to offer my subjective opinion in this instance, I would recommend finding another CG Benge. They are around. My second choice might be the CG Selmer or a large bore Benge 6X, especially an earlier one. I would also try a Schilke. The B3 may blow a little tighter that the CG Benge, but the blow should be right between the OP's Bach and Benge. If the B3 is too tight, the X5, if you can find one, has the same bell as the B3 but with a .468 bore just like the CG Benge. The Schilke X3 and X4 use the large #1 bell which for me doesn't work nearly as well as my B3, which is my go to horn for lead, shows, and general commercial playing. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 150 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2023 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Adams A5 might be to your liking. It has a wide and open blow. The slotting in the high range depends very much on your mouthpiece and approach to playing so - as always - try before buy. |
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