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Courtois Valve Trombone is it decent instrument?



 
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TriumphantTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:18 am    Post subject: Courtois Valve Trombone is it decent instrument? Reply with quote

Slightly off the topic for a trumpet forum but I wonder if anyone has experience with Antoine Courtois valve trombones and can tell me anything about quality etc. as I can find virtually nothing about them online. I was told the instrument was made somewhere around the 1980's.

I bought the instrument from a chap who I bought a few trumpets off just to give it a bash and occasionally tinker and have occasionally looked around to see if I could find any information on them.

Is a valve trombone actually considered to be a 'proper' trombone or is it really sort of a Bass trumpet?
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poketrum
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are excellent valve trombones and excellent valve trombonists.

Every instrument is whatever you make it to be.
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TriumphantTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be both a very hard to find instrument and hard to find video online of people playing them. I bought it off a chap in England who plays valve trombone as well as trumpet. I fancied having something to tinker with at times to make low honking noises with that didn't require the need to learn to use a slide well at the same time although I do have a slide trombone kicking around too. I haven't found any reviews of the Courtois so have no idea whether it's a good one or not or what sort of value it has. I didn't pay a little for it but I didn't pay a lot either.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a marching trombone for when I need to sub in a trad jazz band playing the trombone part. It fits in really well. It has good intonation. I would totally recommend something like that to scratch the low brass itch. I know some would say it doesn't look like a trombone, but really most people don't care. And I've gotten lots of questions asking what it is.

I made the choice to go with the marching horn as it was much cheaper than a well made valve trombone.
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sd4f
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriumphantTrumpeter wrote:
It seems to be both a very hard to find instrument and hard to find video online of people playing them.


Here's one that comes to mind, brass ensemble arrangement of Vivaldi's Violin Concerto RV 230. At around 3:00 mark there's a valve trombone feature. This concerto is mostly a piccolo trumpet solo, but in the middle movement they decided to offload a little bit of the melody to a valve trombone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcCL1aNPRNg

Valve trombone certainly isn't a common instrument, and that's probably because it doesn't appear in any sort of standard ensemble setting. I'm not trying to denigrate it in saying this; it's differences are extremely subtle that probably can't really be heard by most people, when compared to good trombonists.

In any case, I would hazard a guess that most of its existence is probably to let valve brass players be able to play an instrument that occupies that tonal space, without having to learn how to use a slide. The linked video suggests that to me, since the musician moved over from a euphonium, and nothing in the music suggests that it couldn't be played on a trombone. I think they opted for a trombone tone colour to stand out for the solo.
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poketrum
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fahn (also a fantastic slide trombonist)
Rob McConnell
Bob Brookmeyer
Rich Matteson
Maynard Ferguson
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Courtois Valve Trombone is it decent instrument? Reply with quote

TriumphantTrumpeter wrote:
Is a valve trombone actually considered to be a 'proper' trombone or is it really sort of a Bass trumpet?
A bass trumpet is entirely different than a valve trombone.
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TriumphantTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input folks. I intend to learn to play it properly as well as the slide trombone although I am concentrating on playing Bflat trumpet for the moment as I am nowhere near good enough at that yet to be happy with my playing, It does seem to be a well built instrument and has a very 'fruity' sound. I am guessing that it originally came with a slide section as well as the valve section as there is an area in the case that could accomodate a slide section.
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