Amado keys yes/no?

[dstpt]

When disassembling an Amado or other such small parts from a horn, I've found it best to have the instrument on a towel that can prevent the parts from bouncing and flying.

I have horns with traditional lever water keys, Amados, and Saturns, and I much prefer the latter, since all you need to do is occasionally disassemble and clean the parts and the hole in the tubing...maybe 2-4 times a year. The spring in a Saturn will never* wear, since the normal spring action of the coil spring is only barely engaged in the normal coil spring action of moving up and down. Instead, when pressing the edge of the Saturn ring, you are merely pushing the ball bearing away from the hole (to release condensation) as the spring applies constant pressure on the ball bearing against the hole.

*Ah, you're never supposed to say/write "never" or "always..." a rule I sometimes follow.

Many don't like the look of them, since they don't have a streamlined appearance like lever keys and Amados, but maybe someone out there will yet sit in an opera pit, and during a long rest, stare at their instrument, and devise a new fixed widget, as did Denis Wedgwood, inventor of the Saturn water key. Inventions happen.

[JWG]

The biggest problem with the Amado's design arises from its overly tight tolerances and high precision that hampers its function when it gets dirty and the extreme difficulty you have removing the circlip to disassemble it. Kind of like German tanks during a Soviet winter. LOL

There exists an improved Amado with a screw closure instead of circlips, that work well.

If you own a horn with an old school Amado and do not want to go to a technician to replace it with new style or Saturn, I would suggest you do couple things:

1. Keep your horn clean by (1) swabbing and blowing out the water from your horn after each session (even using BlowDry or Spitball alcohol-soaked foam cleaning cylinders), (2) blowing a few drops of valve oil through the horn to lubricate the Amado piston from the interior and also reduce the growth of bacteria, and (3) periodically applying one drop to the back of the Amado to lubricate the spring.

2. Buy several spare circlips, because, if you ever need to disassemble an Amado, there exists a high probability that you could lose it, deform it, or even break it even if you disassemble it in a plastic bag. Like an idiot, I have done all three of these things.

Having had problems disassembling my Amados, I now take an extra minute after each playing session to keep my horn clean inside in order to keep the Amado valves working flawlessly and with the high precision its designer intended.
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[kehaulani]

I'm just going to get Josh Landress to replace the Amados with lever keys. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Riojazz]

My tech recommended Hetman 11. It's Rotor Oil, not Valve Oil. It comes in a bottle with the 'needle' dropper. Since converting to this, I have not had a problem.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.

[maynard-46]

A big NO! Hate them.

Butch

[trumpetera]

They are to be avoided. They stick at the worst moment possible, and you don't get the water out completely.
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Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

[poketrum]

The Amado water key: a solution in search of a problem.

[raynjtrumpet]

My Thane has Amado keys. Logan Brown had recommended to me that I simply keep the horn clean (I swab it out daily) and lubricate them every time I oil the valves. I do have a small bottle with a needle tip, and I put a few drops of valve oil in that every time I need to oil the keys, so that I can place the oil drop exactly in the hole in the key; using a normal bottle of oil usually results in oil running down the slides, as the oil droplet is larger than the hole.

In about 20 months now of daily use, I've had zero problems with the Amado keys. Fingers crossed!

BTW, does anyone know a source for the special plier-like tool for removing the clips to disassemble the Amados? I'd like to have that and some spare clips in my case as insurance against the "someday" promised by Murphy's law.
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Ray Ritchie
Freehold, NJ USA

[GizB]

Another vote for the Saturn. I've had them on several of my horns for years, and haven't had ANY problem with them. The only reason I haven't put them on my Benge 5X and Benge 5 flugel is I want to keep the original equipment on these vintage horns.

[Shifty]

[Steve A]

I've always been mystified by the negativity around amado keys. I have them on some of my trumpets, and not on others. Maybe I've just been improbably lucky all these years, but they've always been just fine. No weird leaking, no corks wearing out, no springs breaking in the middle of a performance and needing to be held with an elastic until a tech fixes it, or anything of the sort. Based on the way some people talk about them here, you'd almost get the sense the makers of amado keys torture kittens for fun, or something. For me, they've always just done what they're supposed to without any fuss or drama.

[oxleyk]

I have them on my 1972-ish Getzen Severinsen. I like that you can empty both at the same time.

For the few times that one sticks unexpectedly I keep a universal tech tool (a paperclip) in my case to push it closed.

Kent

[Shifty]

[raynjtrumpet]

[Shifty]

[LittleRusty]

[Shifty]

The "air relief hole" provides access to the spring and the inside of the piston. Nothing there to stick. I suppose if you added enough oil, it could spill over onto the outside piston surface, but not a very effective way to go. Adding a drop of oil to the protruding end of the piston seems a much more effective means of lubrication if you're worried about about the mixture that exists at the exhaust port.
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Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn

[LittleRusty]

[Shifty]

[LittleRusty]