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Small Bore Committee Lead Pipe



 
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mr_evertonia
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:11 am    Post subject: Small Bore Committee Lead Pipe Reply with quote

I recently bought a small bore Committee that's in great shape but the lead pipe is bent and has a patch on it. My repair guy recommends a replacement. I contacted Charlie Melk but he only makes medium bore pipes, does anyone know where I might get a small bore lead pipe from?

thanks

Simon
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Goby
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reach out to Miles O'Malley in Chicago.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't answer your question directly, but Josh Landress is a superb restorer of classic instruments and if he can't answer your question, I don't know who can.
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a small-bore Committee several years ago.
Was curious how it compared to my #3 (large bore) and #2 (medium bore) Committees.
In a word: unremarkable.
I sold it soon after.

In my view, Martin missed a great opportunity to produce a step-bore design trumpet.
It might have compared to ... and, likely competed with the Conn 28A Connstellation (long-cornet), the OLDS Mendez (long) Cornet, and the Conn 8B Artist lightweight trumpet.

If it were my horn (the OP's), I would research a specialized mouthpipe (different Venturi) than OEM.

Can't say, for certain, but Brad Goode shares this attitude. He used to post here, under screen name, "bg". His opinions are respected.
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J. Landress Brass
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only seen a very, very small number of #1 bore Martins and do not have a mandrel for the leadpipe. It is highly unlikely anyone has one and one would need to be made off of the existing pipe.
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mr_evertonia
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
Reach out to Miles O'Malley in Chicago.
I did and they make one, many thanks for your help!
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know how it plays - one of the best Martins I ever worked on and played was a #1 Handcraft Committee.
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bg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The leadpipes on the #1 and #2 are identical.
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mr_evertonia
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Brad, I asked Charlie Melk about this and he says his #2 wouldn't fit a number 1 bore.
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bg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The #2 is dual bore, .438/.453. The #1 is a straight .438 bore. The pipe and top reversed tuning slide are shared by both models.

The #3 is different. It is a .453/.468 dual bore.
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mr_evertonia
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Brad, new pipe ordered. Many thanks for your input

Simon
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JHirakawa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a small bore Committee at a local estate sale yesterday. Serial no. 151200 which should make it about 1946. The ID of the end of the lead pipe going into the tuning slide measures .425". The ID at exit of the tuning slide measures .445", same as the 2nd valve slide. I made the measurements using a digital caliper and a manual caliper to double check, so I shouldn't be too far off. (PS: The horn is in pristine condition, no lacquer wear, no dents, very nice valves, with case and a Martin no, 8 mouthpiece for $1,100. Documentation says the trumpet was purchased from Lyons Band Instrument Co. 223 W. Lake St., Chicago, IL. Sometimes you just get lucky.)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/1946_Martin_Committee.jpg
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bg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin never made a horn using .445 bore tubing. I would check to see if the ends of the slides you are measuring are either stretched or crimped. This is common on old Martins after usage.

The small bore will have an "M" or "1" stamped on the second valve casing. The dual bore medium will have a "2" stamped there.


BG
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I can't answer your question directly, but Josh Landress is a superb restorer of classic instruments and if he can't answer your question, I don't know who can.


Josh restored a Committee for me a couple of years back. IMHO, he is the world's top expert on Committees.
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JHirakawa
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bg wrote:
Martin never made a horn using .445 bore tubing. I would check to see if the ends of the slides you are measuring are either stretched or crimped. This is common on old Martins after usage.

The small bore will have an "M" or "1" stamped on the second valve casing. The dual bore medium will have a "2" stamped there.


BG

This is straight from MartinCommittee.org:
The Committee came in the following bores:
a small bore, #1 (0.445)
medium bore #2 (0.451), sometimes designated with a star above the serial number
extra large bore #3 (0.468).

I have seen this information on other sites too.

The bore size is not marked anywhere on my horn. It is in pristine condition with almost no wear, no dents, no scratches. My calipers are not ultra-expensive, but the bore does measure .445" give or take. (I have degrees in Chemical and Civil Engineering, and National Resource Strategy-Energy so I am sort of a techno-nerd. That why I used a manual caliper (that I had when I taught nuclear power operators in the 70's,) to double check the measurements. Pretty sure it's a .445" small bore horn.
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Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles


Last edited by JHirakawa on Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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bg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I just went and measured my small bore martins. You are correct, they measured at .445. Sorry for my incorrect assertion!
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
I can't answer your question directly, but Josh Landress is a superb restorer of classic instruments and if he can't answer your question, I don't know who can.


Josh restored a Committee for me a couple of years back. IMHO, he is the world's top expert on Committees.


Perhaps.
I know another guy that might supersede Landress. He used to post on this forum, but was banninated, I believe.
He is still "out there", but prefers to remain reclusive. Colorful chap! Last time I saw him, he had just about every iteration of Martin Committees ... plays them, has a lot of Martin Committee parts, works on them, restores them. Literally, a "walking encyclopedia" of all-things Martin Committee.
He occasionally "allows" me to peruse his horns. Toot on 'em, sometimes.
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JHirakawa
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bg wrote:
Yes, I just went and measured my small bore martins. You are correct, they measured at .445. Sorry for my incorrect assertion!


Brad: I'm going to throw you another curve. The bore on my 1946 Committee measures 0.430 +/- at the end of the leadpipe entering the tuning slide, and 0.445 at exit of the tuning slide and at the second valve slice. Step bore?
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Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles
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