• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Bach bell on Schilke E3L



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jotrpt
Regular Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 84
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Bach bell on Schilke E3L Reply with quote

Hello,

though this topic came up (directly or indirectly) already before, I would like to ask for your advice and experiences out there again: It seems not so uncommon to fit a Bach C trumpet bell to a Schilke E3L body in order to get a broader and fuller sound for orchestral work, combined with the fine intonation of a Schilke. Which Bach C bell is to be preferred for that purpoes, say for the Eb side, the 229, 238 or 239?

Thanks, Jochen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bachstrad72
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 871
Location: NJ/Philly

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you check out Wynton Marsalis's London Concert album you can hear him perform on an E3L with Bach 229 bells fitted to the instrument. Apparently this is a common thing to do. You can really hear a difference on this recording between his Eb sound and his early recording of the Eb trumpet.
_________________
~Perry Sutton~
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1099
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bachstrad72 wrote:
If you check out Wynton Marsalis's London Concert album you can hear him perform on an E3L with Bach 229 bells fitted to the instrument. Apparently this is a common thing to do. You can really hear a difference on this recording between his Eb sound and his early recording of the Eb trumpet.


On his early (classical debut) recording, he also uses a Bach bell on his E flat. You can see it on the album cover (where he's holding his E flat and picc), though they tried to cover it up by putting his picc bell across the engraving.

I think that difference you're hearing is more of a difference of style and maturity in his playing.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order to install a Bach C trumpet bell one of two things must be done. The bell must be bent shorter or the inner tuning slide leg from the 1st slide must be shortened.

What I would recomend is to purchase a Bach D180 standard 236 bell. It is broader than the standard Schilke E3L bell and it is bent to nearly the perfect length thus avoiding having to alter the inner tuning slide leg.

I've done two so far using D180 bells without any trimming and many more C180 239 bells with trimming of the inner slide tube on Schilke E3L trumpets.

You might also call Schilke to find what larger bells are readily available for your E3L. Perhaps a yellow brass S22 bell would produce a more bach like sound on your E3L. They are always very helpful and easy to work with.

I hope this is helpful.

Jim Becker
Brass Repair Specialist
Osmun Music Inc.


Last edited by James Becker on Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Upstatetpt
Veteran Member


Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 343
Location: Up-State

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that the 239 bell was the most popular for Eb. Ken Larson converts these bells without cutting the tuning slide on the Schilke, so you can still use the original bells. His website is www.brasswerks.com Schilke does have a larger bell that comes standard on their E3L-4 (four valve Eb/D). It's a custom order from Schilke to have one made to fit the E3L, but it is an option. It also allows you to still use the original E3L bells.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johntpt
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 07 Feb 2002
Posts: 2284
Location: Toluca, Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can order a Schilke No. 2 bell for the E3L. It'll give you a broader sound, but still not quite the "Bach sound." The No. 2 is the standard on the E3L4.

I used to have a 236 D180 bell on my E3L4, but I've never cared much for the sound of that bell, even on the Bach D trumpets. I do have a 244 D180 bell on my E3L4. That bell was the "Vindabonna D" bell in the old days, and it has a very nice sound.

In terms of which bell to choose, that depends on your tastes. I have 229 bells on my Bach-Melk Eb and those work great. I know others who prefer the 239, but it's a matter of personal tastes. I use 229 bells because that's what we use here in the section. When I use a 229 Eb on 1st trumpet and 2nd trumpet a Bach 229 C trumpet, the sounds seems to line up much better than if one of us were using a 239.

Mr. Becker would do a great job fitting a 229 or 239 bell to your Eb. A question for you, Mr. Becker - are Bach parts like bells getting scarce with the strike going on so long??

Charlie Melk in Milwaukee has fit lots of strange bells to various horns of mine over the years, and always does a great job. Last year I had him fit a 304 bell from a short bell Bach Eb to my Schilke G1L4 in F, and it works pretty well!

JU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johntpt wrote:
You can order a Schilke No. 2 bell for the E3L. It'll give you a broader sound, but still not quite the "Bach sound." The No. 2 is the standard on the E3L4.

I used to have a 236 D180 bell on my E3L4, but I've never cared much for the sound of that bell, even on the Bach D trumpets. I do have a 244 D180 bell on my E3L4. That bell was the "Vindabonna D" bell in the old days, and it has a very nice sound.

In terms of which bell to choose, that depends on your tastes. I have 229 bells on my Bach-Melk Eb and those work great. I know others who prefer the 239, but it's a matter of personal tastes.

Mr. Becker would do a great job fitting a 229 or 239 bell to your Eb. A question for you, Mr. Becker - are Bach parts like bells getting scarce with the strike going on so long??

Charlie Melk in Milwaukee has fit lots of strange bells to various horns of mine over the years, and always does a great job. Last year I had him fit a 304 bell from a short bell Bach Eb to my Schilke G1L4 in F, and it works pretty well!

JU



John, I have not had to order any Bach bells lateley so I cannot comment on availablitly.

I just called Schilke today for a customer interested in alternative bells for his E3L and confirmed that the #2 bell shape is what they recomend as an alternative to the stock bell. This is the shape used on E3L4, B5 and B6 (copper) and S22 (brass w-soldered half round "French" bell wire). I owned an S32 years ago and felt that it had more of a Bach sound of all the Schilke offerings. So an S22 bell bent to fit an E3L would be the nearest to a Bach in the Schilke line up.

I am in the process of arranging to have some bells made to Schilke E3L dimentions. These are one piece hand hammered 239 shape. PM or email me if you are interested.

Jim Becker
Brass Repair Specilaist
Osmun Music Inc.
jbecker@osmun.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to update the members of Trumept Herald that we have successfully completed our first ever Osmun (Bach 239 copy) installation on a Schilke E3L. The results are even better than I could have hoped. In addition to a much richer sound, the scale is also improved. The very flat 5th partial E natural Eb and first valve D are very nearly in tune with much less lipping to bring up those naturally flat notes up to pitch.

These bells are fine copies of Bach 239 hand hammered yellow brass one piece bells. They are bent to fit a Schilke E3L perfectly with no alteration to the tuning slide tubes.

Pictures will be post on our web page in the coming days.

Jim Becker
Brass Repair Specialist
Osmun Music Inc.
www.osmun.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
jotrpt
Regular Member


Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 84
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the first (and proud) customer who got the Osmun Bach-239-copy Eb bell for his Schilke E3L, let me post a short review here:

First of all, the bell and all subsequent adjustments such that it fits a standard E3L body are immaculately made. It fits my E3L body (which - for obvious reasons since I'm from Germany - was not the one Jim Becker could work with) perfectly; great craftmanship, Jim! With this bell, the E3L gets a significantly richer and fuller sound, with much colour, nearly indistinguishable from a genuine C trumpet sound, particularly if played with your usual Bb or C trumpet mouthpiece. The horn continues to respond easily and to have an even blow over all scales. And, as far as I can say from my first days of playing it, it also appears to me that in regard of intonation (which is already very good on the Schilke!) some naturally tricky notes are nearly in tune or at least easier to adjust. So I find this bell a very valuable addition to the E3L, which makes the Schilke Eb a more flexible instrument and which I can recommend to everyone who wishes to have the option of a broader, C-trumpet like sound with his E3L.

Jochen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lmaraya
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 618

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:
I just wanted to update the members of Trumept Herald that we have successfully completed our first ever Osmun (Bach 239 copy) installation on a Schilke E3L. The results are even better than I could have hoped. In addition to a much richer sound, the scale is also improved. The very flat 5th partial E natural Eb and first valve D are very nearly in tune with much less lipping to bring up those naturally flat notes up to pitch.

These bells are fine copies of Bach 239 hand hammered yellow brass one piece bells. They are bent to fit a Schilke E3L perfectly with no alteration to the tuning slide tubes.

Pictures will be post on our web page in the coming days.

Jim Becker
Brass Repair Specialist
Osmun Music Inc.
www.osmun.com


Jim,

Do you still carry these bells?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lmaraya wrote:

Jim,

Do you still carry these bells?


Hello lmaraya, Thanks for asking, yes we have one in Eb available for immediate delivery, but can make up more in either Eb or D if you'd like.

To place an order with us contact our sales manager Tim Cote at 781-646-5756 or email sales@osmun.com

Images of our Eb bell on a Schilke E3L are available to view here:

http://www.osmun.com/services/osmunbell.jpg

http://www.osmun.com/services/osmunbell3.jpg

_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
www.osmun.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
dbacon
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 8592

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:
lmaraya wrote:

Jim,

Do you still carry these bells?


Hello lmaraya, Thanks for asking, yes we have one in Eb available for immediate delivery, but can make up more in either Eb or D if you'd like.

To place an order with us contact our sales manager Tim Cote at 781-646-5756 or email sales@osmun.com

Images of our Eb bell on a Schilke E3L are available to view here:

http://www.osmun.com/services/osmunbell.jpg

http://www.osmun.com/services/osmunbell3.jpg

_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
www.osmun.com



Jim, do you have to have the trumpet to fit the bell to it?
Very interesting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Becker
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, It is always more ideal to have the valve set to precisely fit the tuning rail and lower tube assembly. We have made a jig for Schilke E3L trumpets that we use when the valve body is not sent which we've had some good luck mounting our bells so far.

_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
www.osmun.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
cjl
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if these bells would fit a B&S 4-valve Eb. I only have an Eb bell for this horn and was wondering about getting a D bell.

Also, I did not notice a price for the bell when I browsed through the Osmun site.

Thanks -- Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Gianlucasr
New Member


Joined: 27 Sep 2023
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Trumpeters! I'm from Italy and i am really interest in mounting a C Bach 229 or 239 bell on a schilke e3l. I Read that its possibile.
Can someone post some photos to better understand the final result?
Thanks a lot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group